AHC: Fascist France

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

Throughout the 1920s and the 1930s, there have been numerous attempts by far-right parties to attempt to gain power in France and turn France into a monarchy, a dictatorship, or some kind of Fascist government.

The Challenge is this:

PODs are between June 29th, 1919 and September 1st, 1939.

Create a France with a Fascist dictatorship similar to Nazi Germany, and with policies similar to the policies of Nazi Germany.

 

[The B]

A defeat or only minor victory in WWI seems the only way to pull this off.
Otherwise a putsch is really the only option.

Edit: Also, policies similar to that of Nazi Germany - how far would that go? A French lebensraum plan?

 

[EternalCynic]

Wilson gets his way at Versailles and the treaty is much less in favor of France. France is required to share part of the guilt for starting the war. German reparations to France are much less, and Britain sides with the US in favoring more moderate punishments to Germany. Alsace Lorraine is put under League of Nations administration with a referendum planned in five years time. Only the city of Metz is granted to France without a referendum.

Therefore while Germany soon recovers from the war, the stab in the back myth emerges in France.

 

[Cook]

Wilson gets his way at...

Not what you’d call particularly likely to happen.

 

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Boulangisme is a Proto-Fascist ideology, but that predates the OP. I think the war would have to end in less favorable terms as other suggested. It would also help if the Communists were stronger, maybe even started an uprising that failed. That would make people scared enough to support the far-right, and also discredit the political center left and right.

I can see Antisemitism, Corporatist autarky economic policies, and militarism being enacted, but I'm not sure French political thought allows for a lebensraum style policy. The Vichy State glorified agrarian society, but other than maybe retaking Alsace-Lorraine, and possibly Belgium, what else could be advocated? Perhaps extending into the Left Bank of the Rhine, but that's a lot less ambitious than Germany trying to swallow everything up to the Urals.

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

I don't really think a fascist France would be so much about expanding so much as making sure France never is threatened by Germany again. Expansion if it happens will be pretty much at the expense of Germany and anyone else who throws in with them (certainly a madly nationalistic France could dig up some antiquated claims against Northern Italy if Italy goes pro-German), after all, this is fascist logic, there is no statute of limitations on territorial claims.

I wonder what era of French history would be glorified the most under a fascist French regime, and whether or not there would be any kind of monarchist support.

 

[Cook]

I wonder what era of French history would be glorified the most under a fascist French regime...

Is there really any doubt?

 

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

I wonder what era of French history would be glorified the most under a fascist French regime, and whether or not there would be any kind of monarchist support.

Perhaps the Merovingian or Carolingian Empire? I can see the monarchists like Action Française rallying behind a Fascist figure in hopes of a restoration, only to be terribly disappointed. That happened OTL with Boulanger and the Vichy government.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Is there really any doubt?

Why stop there ? with this guy, you stake a claim on most of europe !

 

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

Wilson gets his way at Versailles and the treaty is much less in favor of France. France is required to share part of the guilt for starting the war. German reparations to France are much less, and Britain sides with the US in favoring more moderate punishments to Germany. Alsace Lorraine is put under League of Nations administration with a referendum planned in five years time. Only the city of Metz is granted to France without a referendum.

Therefore while Germany soon recovers from the war, the stab in the back myth emerges in France.

Won't work, because the Treaty of Versailles was already signed as per my original post.

 

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Is there really any doubt?

Yeah but Napoleon was the Dictator of the Bougeoisie. He is the embodiment of the Enlightenment and French Revolutionary ideals. All of that is anathema to Fascism, especially in France where it tended to have a Clerical/Legitimist bent.

 

[wolf_brother]

IOTL.... (seriously, wth)

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Throughout the 1920s and the 1930s, there have been numerous attempts by far-right parties to attempt to gain power in France and turn France into a monarchy, a dictatorship, or some kind of Fascist government.

The Challenge is this:

PODs are between June 28th, 1919 and September 1st, 1939.

Create a France with a Fascist dictatorship similar to Nazi Germany, and with policies similar to the policies of Nazi Germany.

Even without a defeat as was mention in other post, the far right in OTL was pretty strong in france. The only thing missing realy was a unification of the various groups. Colonel La Rocque and his croix de feu could have served as a nucleus if he had chosen to go further in his actions.

 

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

Yeah but Napoleon was the Dictator of the Bougeoisie. He is the embodiment of the Enlightenment and French Revolutionary ideals. All of that is anathema to Fascism, especially in France where it tended to have a Clerical/Legitimist bent.

Propaganda can glorify the parts of him that support the Fascist government, like his massive empire, and cover up the parts of him that do not embody Fascist ideas.

 

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Propaganda can glorify the parts of him that support the Fascist government, like his massive empire, and cover up the parts of him that do not embody Fascist ideas.

It would just be easier to use Charlemagne as the focus. Greater territorial claim, more distance to an ideal past to project upon instead of a relatively recent past. Not to mention it would appeal more to Traditionalist Catholics, and French Royalists who would be potentially willing to support them.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

It would just be easier to use Charlemagne as the focus. Greater territorial claim, more distance to an ideal past to project upon instead of a relatively recent past. Not to mention it would appeal more to Traditionalist Catholics, and French Royalists who would be potentially willing to support them.

I think the best sort of approach would be for French Fascist Party (whatever its name be) to pick and chose bits from history to try and build a narative that would please the various factions: A history build on great men such as Charlemagne who united europe under france, Louis XIV who was the perfect example of the enlighten despot, Napoleon who saved france from the republicans, etc.... Within this narrative, Napoleon wouldn't be the usurper of the monarchy but simply the person (incidently a nobleman by birth) who brought back the rule of the elite due to the degenerescence of Louis XVI (quite probably not of true royal blood anyway.....we got the papers to prove it !)

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

French "lebensuram" effectively lay in the colonies. France had been encouraging immigration for some time and there were noticeable populations of European French immigrants or their descendants in many colonies.

Countering the lebensuram (habitat?) thing is a declining French birth rate. While the Facist loyalists may buy off on the 'Greater France' ideal there wont be much more demographic pressure for immigration than OTL.

I gotta agree with the argument that a Facist France would most likely result from some sort of Red scare, or actual Communist irruption. The wealthy might see a Facist movement as a tool to suppress the Bolshiviks.

 

[M. Adolphe Thiers]

Also, I might add that it is going to be rather difficult for French Fascists to emulate the Nazis. The Far-Right in France had its own characteristics, and typically chose to model themselves based on Italy than Hitler. French enmity towards Germany prevented a French National Socialist Party from forming on its own.

So you can have a fascist party in the spectrum of Fascism emerge, but for a Nazi Party to be put into power would probably require Germany doing so under occupation. Most French Nationalists aren't going to copy their archenemy.

 

[Cook]

Also, I might add that it is going to be rather difficult for French Fascists to emulate the Nazis. The Far-Right in France had its own characteristics, and typically chose to model themselves based on Italy than Hitler.

I think that may have been the case with all of the various national fascist movements in Europe.

 

[Wolfpaw]

The February 6 Crisis of 1934 turns into an actual coup. De La Rocque establishes a right-wing government.

Lebensraum will be Wallonia, Switzerland, parts of Italy, and Algeria. They'll push for Wallonia, forget Switzerland, and rattle Italy's cage. We can also expect to see ethnic cleansing of immigrants, colonials, Jews, possibly Protestants, and basically any non-Frenchmen. Expect corpses in the Seine à la 1961, only worse. The Breton, Occitan, Corsican, Basque cultures will be severely persecuted, among others. I can see state-sponsored genocide occurring in Algeria.

The French right was also extremely Catholic, so we will likely see clerical fascism evolve in tandem with the regime.

I could see France invading Abyssinia if Italy does, just to grab some opportunistic territory.

Given that the French right-wing was even more anti-Semitic than the German right, I think we could see some attempt at a Final Solution being made. Deporting Jews to the Algerian warzone, frex.