AHC: Better X-Men movies?

[deathscompanion1]

Title sums it up. How would you make the first three X-Men movies better? Especially the last one.

As a matter of taste nothing along the lines of "Ratner gets hit by a car."

Bonus points if it involves not screwing Cyclops over and maybe giving him at least as important a part as Wolverine.

 

[Glass Onion]

A good divergence would be to have Superman stay in development hell for a few more years or have Warner Bros hire someone else to direct a new Superman film. Therefore, in either case, Bryan Singer directs X-Men III. I don't know how good a Bryan Singer directed film would be, but it would be a start.

 

[jkarr]

For starters, don't focus nigh on exclusively with Wolverine...i love the guy yes, but they put too much attention on him

for the thrid movie, pick one dam plot, mabye referencing or very minute subplots, not mash it up with several (and even then, not getting any right, ie: Phoenix)

deadpool in x-men: origins......yea.....someone who knows who deadpool is perhaps actually writing it?

but overall really, it kinda comes back to the first point thinking about it....less wolverine, or least less "all the series revolving around him as the main character" and much more expansion into the other characters


oh and stop retconning the backstories in each new movie

 

[deathscompanion1]

For starters, don't focus nigh on exclusively with Wolverine...i love the guy yes, but they put too much attention on him

for the thrid movie, pick one dam plot, mabye referencing or very minute subplots, not mash it up with several (and even then, not getting any right, ie: Phoenix)

deadpool in x-men: origins......yea.....someone who knows who deadpool is perhaps actually writing it?

but overall really, it kinda comes back to the first point thinking about it....less wolverine, or least less "all the series revolving around him as the main character" and much more expansion into the other characters


oh and stop retconning the backstories in each new movie

Got to agree, I love Wolverine but he isn't enough for the entire series to ride on him.

 

[jmc247]

First off they made Magneto way too villainous and unsympathetic in the first three x-films. The first film wasn't that bad, but he was still depicted darker then he had been in the comics since the 70s willing to kill a mutant child for the greater good. But, the second and third x-films really went too far with Magneto being an evil rat bastard. Hell they made him freeking genocidal in the second x-film and they made him view mutants as nothing more then cannon fodder in the third. Magneto's strongest point as a character is when he is depicted somewhat like a Menachem Begin figure not a mutant version of Adolf Hitler.

Secondly, they should not have so focused on Claremont's star X-Men to the extent they placed certain mutants in places where they didn't fit the movie. Better casting would have helped as well.

X-Men #3 should not have been the Dark Phoenix Saga combined with a mutant cure plot. Either just do the Dark Phoenix Saga or go with something else entirely like a Magneto controlled Genosha while introducing his family and a mutant Israel like society dominated by Magneto... which turns into a Rogue nation when he decides to expand its borders.

Using too much Wolverine is of course a given in these films. But, they also would have been very wise to follow the source material far better.

 

[The Kiat]

A good divergence would be to have Superman stay in development hell for a few more years or have Warner Bros hire someone else to direct a new Superman film. Therefore, in either case, Bryan Singer directs X-Men III. I don't know how good a Bryan Singer directed film would be, but it would be a start.

How much say did this director have in the gang of writers who wrote the script? I find it difficult to blame the director if he didn't write the thing.

 

[Heavy]

The first two were very good. The third was enough of a let down that it retroactively made me like the first two less.

 

[jmc247]

The first two were very good. The third was enough of a let down that it retroactively made me like the first two less.

The first two could have been far better fairly easily in my view with some tweaks to the casting and the scripting.

The third needed a total face lift.

 

[MerryPrankster]

First off they made Magneto way too villainous and unsympathetic in the first three x-films. The first film wasn't that bad, but he was still depicted darker then he had been in the comics since the 70s willing to kill a mutant child for the greater good. But, the second and third x-films really went too far with Magneto being an evil rat bastard. Hell they made him freeking genocidal in the second x-film and they made him view mutants as nothing more then cannon fodder in the third. Magneto's strongest point as a character is when he is depicted somewhat like a Menachem Begin figure not a mutant version of Adolf Hitler.

That was my biggest problem with #2. Magneto might want to have mutants rule humans to protect themselves from human genocide (or establish a mutant-only country in some later stories), but KILLING ALL HUMANS EVERYWHERE, even human allies of mutants, is an entirely different beast.

 

[jmc247]

That was my biggest problem with #2. Magneto might want to have mutants rule humans to protect themselves from human genocide (or establish a mutant-only country in some later stories), but KILLING ALL HUMANS EVERYWHERE, even human allies of mutants, is an entirely different beast.

The people at Fox studios sadly don't read up on the source material nearly as much as they should. They sort of use generic ideas for what they think about characters so with Magneto the idea was he became what he hated and who oppressed him... being a genocidal mutant Hitler. Only that wasn't what he became in the comic, he became a militant trying to find ways of defending his people, but not a mutant Hitler.

Sadly the movies have an impact on the comics so Grant Morrison seeing a genocidal Magneto in the films decided to base his version of Magneto on the films and has Magneto become a mutant Hitler figure herding the human population of NYC into massive ovens.

Needless to say after major outrage Marvel retconned the storyline badly. But, the fact is the movies have a direct and powerful influence on the comics and the creators of the Fox films have this generic impression of Magneto that clearly isn't based on reading the comics, but its more based on the idea that people become what they hate most and Magneto hated the Nazis and was oppressed by them so it made sense to them that he has become a genocidal mutant Nazi like figure... only it was a moronic idea that had no basis in the source material and to be blunt leaves a very negative impact if you want Magneto and the X-Men to be working together in the future which they obviously plan on doing and the interesting aspect of Magneto isn't he isn't a generic villain which turning him into a mutant Hitler makes him into.

 

[Heavy]

Sadly the movies have an impact on the comics so Grant Morrison seeing a genocidal Magneto in the films decided to base his version of Magneto on the films and has Magneto become a mutant Hitler figure herding the human population of NYC into massive ovens.

Morrison was actually reacting against the portrayal of Magneto in the movies; when he was interviewed after his run on New X-Men came to an end, he said something like (and I paraphrase here), "Sir Ian McKellan is a lovely man, but Magneto is a mad old terrorist twat". He could've done a better job with it, though.

The idea of Magneto as an aging terrorist/mutant Ché Guevara figure is one I actually really like.

 

[deathscompanion1]

Morrison was actually reacting against the portrayal of Magneto in the movies; when he was interviewed after his run on New X-Men came to an end, he said something like (and I paraphrase here), "Sir Ian McKellan is a lovely man, but Magneto is a mad old terrorist twat". He could've done a better job with it, though.

The idea of Magneto as an aging terrorist/mutant Ché Guevara figure is one I actually really like.

I somehow doubt he would set up actual death camps given his origins. I can see him deciding to kill all humans but just not in that specific way. Nuking the planet (Like he threatened to do once on the tv show) but not a slow calculated industrial genocide.

 

[Devvy]

X-Men 1 was a solid film for what it was at the time; a rare attempt at a serious comic book film. It did it's job well I thought.

X-Men 2 was great again, although there were some questions about Magneto's attempted murder of millions of humans, given his history. He might be a guy about to do everything in his power to protect mutants, no matter what, but he's not the kind of guy to shamelessly murder millions of humans.

X3 was the travesty (I think I've heard Singer slating DOFP as "rewriting some of the former X-Men mistakes" - or something along those lines, and heavily insinuating X3). http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2008/11/x3lit.html shows some of Singer, Dougherty & Harris had planned. Sadly, I think X3 was overweiged by expectation from the fan masses, and couldn't deliver on all the heavy expectations. Not least with Fox's demanding schedule. X3 might have crumbled with Singer at the helm.....or it might have soared. Who knows...

If there's no Superman Returns, then Singer et al stay on with X-Men 3, and with James Marsden not hopping over to Superman either, probably Cyclops in a full role (without dying hopefully, as a massive Cyclops fan).

Bonus: an early script for X1 early in development, before Singer came on board:
http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/x-men_walker3.html

 

[Heavy]

I somehow doubt he would set up actual death camps given his origins. I can see him deciding to kill all humans but just not in that specific way. Nuking the planet (Like he threatened to do once on the tv show) but not a slow calculated industrial genocide.

For what it's worth, Morrison did set up a trapdoor (Magneto was under the influence of an intelligent bacterium who wanted to forment a war between humans and mutants) but the subsequent writers decided to use a much stupider retcon.

It may be worth keeping in mind that pretty much everything Morrison has writen in the past fifteen years or so has been some sort of elaborate commentary on the state of comics in general (for example, the villain of Final Crisis was either Alan Moore or the personification of grim-and-grittiness in comic books, and Superman defeated him by drawing on the powers of the Silver Age). New X-Men was no exception.

 

[CalBear]

How much say did this director have in the gang of writers who wrote the script? I find it difficult to blame the director if he didn't write the thing.

It is ALWAYS the director's fault if a movie is bad (not the acting, great directors have been snaked by lousy actors, but the movie, that is the Director's baby). Movies are the vision of the director. Every actor, every scene, every shot, hell in many cases the inflection on every word, is, as might be expected, directed by the man in charge.

The only time a director can spit the hook is if he didn't have final cut authority (which rarely happens) because it is no longer his movie at that point. Otherwise he's on the hook.

 

[Heavy]

I suppose one option would be Whedon coming on board as a writer for the sequels. He'd done a bit of work on the script for the first one but there was some sort of nasty brouhaha going on behind the scenes that put him off that gig (I believe he went back to TV after that, then started writing X-Men comics for Marvel).

Obviously, he wouldn't have the same degree of experience or hype and he probably wouldn't be able to turn it into a billion-dollar juggernaut like Avengers Assemble, but if X3 had been a Singer/Whedon team effort it might have been left the franchise in better shape.

Another possibility; maybe a team spin-off (maybe like New Mutants or X-Force) would've helped to develop the franchise instead of the kinda naff Wolverine solo movie.

Don't know how plausible any of that is, I must admit. As much as I like the comics I've never really been a huge fan of the X-Men movies.

 

[Beedok]

I don't get how people judge X-men movies. X-II is probably my least favourite, and X-III is in my opinion decent (if not the strongest of the trilogy). As for the hatred of Deadpool, did no one actually watch the movies? He talked every chance he got, and when they had him under mind control they'd stitched his mouth up just to be sure, then in the post credit bit he winks at the camera. He didn't get full development, but he was still clearly the cocky talkative deadpool that everyone seems to love.

 

[deathscompanion1]

I don't get how people judge X-men movies. X-II is probably my least favourite, and X-III is in my opinion decent (if not the strongest of the trilogy). As for the hatred of Deadpool, did no one actually watch the movies? He talked every chance he got, and when they had him under mind control they'd stitched his mouth up just to be sure, then in the post credit bit he winks at the camera. He didn't get full development, but he was still clearly the cocky talkative deadpool that everyone seems to love.

Most of my hate comes from liking Cyclops, finding the final battle stupid and generally just seeing the last film as a waste of money.

 

[yourworstnightmare]

X1 is still a good movie, I wouldn't change much, perhaps just skip the whole Wolverine looking for his past thing, becuase even if it's cool and all it ruins the 2nd movie.

X2, remove the Wolverine's past thing and have Stryker's past with Xavier being more important. Also make Nightcrawler less of a wuss, and have him join the X-Men at the end.

X3 (Oh God, this is a mess), remove the whole Phoenix thingy, that deserve a whole movie on it's own. Remove Juggernaut, he doesn't make any sense to be in the film. Add Blob instead. Have Angel have direct interaction with the X-Men (his story is pure filler and useless otherewise). Have Rogue change her mind about the "cure". Have it end with the place where Jean grey died in X2, to tease X-Men: Phoenix.

 

[THE OBSERVER]

X-Men 1 was a solid film for what it was at the time; a rare attempt at a serious comic book film. It did it's job well I thought.

X-Men 2 was great again, although there were some questions about Magneto's attempted murder of millions of humans, given his history. He might be a guy about to do everything in his power to protect mutants, no matter what, but he's not the kind of guy to shamelessly murder millions of humans.

X3 was the travesty (I think I've heard Singer slating DOFP as "rewriting some of the former X-Men mistakes" - or something along those lines, and heavily insinuating X3). http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2008/11/x3lit.html shows some of Singer, Dougherty & Harris had planned. Sadly, I think X3 was overweiged by expectation from the fan masses, and couldn't deliver on all the heavy expectations. Not least with Fox's demanding schedule. X3 might have crumbled with Singer at the helm.....or it might have soared. Who knows...

If there's no Superman Returns, then Singer et al stay on with X-Men 3, and with James Marsden not hopping over to Superman either, probably Cyclops in a full role (without dying hopefully, as a massive Cyclops fan).

Bonus: an early script for X1 early in development, before Singer came on board:
http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/x-men_walker3.html

Agreed 100%. Perhaps the Dougherty, Harris, and Singer can develop a script, the cast can do a live reading, put some concept art on a screen behind them, and then you would have the X Men 3 film you wanted. That would be a good idea.