AHC: Belgium joins Central Powers
- Thread starter Will Kürlich Kerl
- Start date
This is tough. How many people have a in depth knowledge of Belgian politics between say, 1890 & 1914? We need some background here to sort out the spurious ideas from the valid ones.
What if German makes the ultimatum: Let our troops cross your territory unmolested, and we won't occupy you. And the Belgians accept. They claim they're still neutral, but they are treated as CPs by the Entente. Once attacked by France, they fight back.
The French plan was to advance imeadiatly to meet the Germans, whatever the Belgians did. In theory the Belgians could fight back, however if my understanding of the locations of their armorys or mobiliztion centers is near correct the Belgian army would not add much to the weight of the Germans, and their movement might actually hinder the German advance south wards to France. Only two Belgian corps of four infantry and one cavalry division were capable of field service, the remainder being tied to the Liege & Namur fortresses, & a small Antwerp garrison.
The real effects are political and there are many. First the British will not have stories of Germans bayonetting babies, or shooting nurses. Second the Entente have a excuse to plan the invasion of the Belgian Congo colony. Impounding Belgian assets in London banks would occur instantly as well.
I dont know if this would advance the schedule for the BEF a few days or not.
Flanders maybe, if Holland allied.. Or not. Could be an odd power play, as Flemishes are catholics, the Kaizer, well... Kulturkampf anyone?
Because the country have a complex, dual nature (witha tiny(?) germanophone communauty), so maybe someone could make the two communauties split over...
Well, for one, the Belgium Biscuit of NZ would probably have not be renamed that from the original label, German Biscuit
katchen
Banned
One obvious incentive Germany could offer Belgium might be the whole of French Equatorial Africa if the Central Powers win. Obviously, if Belgium joins the Central Powers, Belgium will be occupying Brazzaville, Pointe Noire, Bangui and if they can manage it, the smaller outposts of Ubangi-Shari like Beraberati, Boungassou, Bongassoa, Ft.Archambault and maybe even down the Chari River to Ft. Lamy on Lake Chad.
Just as obviously, if the British join the war, they will be occupying Katanga and Kasai. And that's an almost certainty. A Belgium allied to Germany will be seen by the UK as as much of a threat as a Belgium invaded by Germany. The Belgians will try to occupy Calais and Dunqerque and Bologne straightaway. As well as Lille. And hope German reinforcements get to them in time.
Just as obviously, if the British join the war, they will be occupying Katanga and Kasai. And that's an almost certainty. A Belgium allied to Germany will be seen by the UK as as much of a threat as a Belgium invaded by Germany. The Belgians will try to occupy Calais and Dunqerque and Bologne straightaway. As well as Lille. And hope German reinforcements get to them in time.
Since Britain had signed the Treaty of London to guarantee Belgium's neutrality I'm not so sure, would not ultimatums be considered almost a declaration of war?
this is tuff
King Albert I. refused ALL attempt by German Empire for peaceful solution, for Army march through true Belgium into France
what if Albert i not become King ?
but his older Brother Prince Baudouin of Belgium is alive (he died of influenza in 1891).
as king Baudouin i, would he more open to German Empire demands ?
King Albert I. refused ALL attempt by German Empire for peaceful solution, for Army march through true Belgium into France
what if Albert i not become King ?
but his older Brother Prince Baudouin of Belgium is alive (he died of influenza in 1891).
as king Baudouin i, would he more open to German Empire demands ?
This is implausible, but could we see Belgium joining the CP over the Congo Free State? Say in 1908 Leopold II refuses to give up the Congo, so it creates something of an international crisis? Perhaps in that crisis Wilhelm II could support Belgium?
I don't really know though, that's probably way too implausible.
I don't really know though, that's probably way too implausible.
Deleted member 1487
One obvious incentive Germany could offer Belgium might be the whole of French Equatorial Africa if the Central Powers win. Obviously, if Belgium joins the Central Powers, Belgium will be occupying Brazzaville, Pointe Noire, Bangui and if they can manage it, the smaller outposts of Ubangi-Shari like Beraberati, Boungassou, Bongassoa, Ft.Archambault and maybe even down the Chari River to Ft. Lamy on Lake Chad.
Just as obviously, if the British join the war, they will be occupying Katanga and Kasai. And that's an almost certainty. A Belgium allied to Germany will be seen by the UK as as much of a threat as a Belgium invaded by Germany. The Belgians will try to occupy Calais and Dunqerque and Bologne straightaway. As well as Lille. And hope German reinforcements get to them in time.
They could of course also offer Belgium French Flanders.
Britain was more concerned with keeping the Germans out of the Lowlands and having naval bases on the English Channel, so Britain would consider Belgium abandoning her neutrality and therefore in breech of the contract they signed and an enemy. I think this would probably bring the British into the war.
Yeah, not to mention the Francophone ruling class that was biased toward France (though not unfriendly to Germany).
True, I don't know how much influence the King had over the Belgian Parliament of the time.
A TL with a POD perhaps in the first couple of years of the twentieth century where Germany commits to offense in the east, and defense in the west, with a decision to not violate Belgian neutrality to keep Britain out of a continental war, and France decides to hit Germany through Belgium, perhaps first demanding free transit, could do it. If Germany had not built up its navy and otherwise alarmed Britain, you might not only have Belgium, but Britain coming in on the side of the Central Powers.
This is all presuming that WWI or an analogue isn't completely butterflied away.
This is all presuming that WWI or an analogue isn't completely butterflied away.
Well, the British at one point had the plan to invade the Netherlands for not being anti-German enough. They decided against it, but apparently not doing anything was enough to be an enemy. That is probably the easiest way for Belgium to join the central powers. It was the way they joined the entente, by being attacked by the other side.
David S Poepoe
Banned
I believe that the Belgians had a fear that the French would invade in order to get at Germany and had a few contingent plans in the books to fight them. They were completely surprised when the Germans came up and asked to pass thru them.
Britain's observance of Belgian neutrality will only go so far as it benefitted Britain. If the French had appealed to pass thru Belgium to attack Germany, the British would have pressured the Belgians to accept.
Britain's observance of Belgian neutrality will only go so far as it benefitted Britain. If the French had appealed to pass thru Belgium to attack Germany, the British would have pressured the Belgians to accept.
BlondieBC
Banned
I have seen a poster claim that the key factor in Belgium going to war was an overestimation of how well their fortress would hold. And that the senior military leader most pessimistic about the chances missed the key meeting due to some odd event such as a auto accident. Flip it around so he attends and the most pro-"fortress will hold" leader does not, and you might get Belgium allowing them to pass through. And I guess if France declared war on Belgium the Belgium would join the CP. Reluctantly.
Can't give you site or names.
I suspect due to the tightness of the Germans advance schedule and logistics, the Germans would want the Belgian to remain in barracks. I don't know exactly what the German war plan called for, and I would not be surprised if it was poorly thought out such as other aspects of plan.
I lean towards UK entering war even if Belgium is "neutral". German troops near Calais would be too much. But you need someone better on the internal UK politics to say for sure.