AHC - A new owner of India!

[Doctor Imperialism]

As we all know, India eventually came to be completely dominated by Britain by the 1840's, with divisions and infighting among the native Indians allowing the British to take over the entire subcontinent. Now, my challenge to you is this. With a POD after 1800 (You'll notice I removed the possibility of a French victory in the Seven Year's War ), make it so that another power - be it France, Germany, Lichenstein, your choice - dominates India by 1920 to the same degree that Britain did.

(Note that this doesn't mean that the British have to be forced entirely out - they're allowed to maintain small holdings in Bengal or elsewhere ala Pondicherry or Goa should you choose)

 

[Hrvatskiwi]

As we all know, India eventually came to be completely dominated by Britain by the 1840's, with divisions and infighting among the native Indians allowing the British to take over the entire continent. Now, my challenge to you is this. With a POD after 1800 (You'll notice I removed the possibility of a French victory in the Seven Year's War ), make it so that another power - be it France, Germany, Lichenstein, your choice - dominates India by 1920 to the same degree that Britain did.

(Note that this doesn't mean that the British have to be forced entirely out - they're allowed to maintain small holdings in Bengal or elsewhere ala Pondicherry or Goa should you choose)

To do this realistically, a POD before 1800 is needed. 1700 would be doable. And then it would probably be France. If France makes as much money out of India as the Brits did, it'll probably butterfly away the French revolution. Wow, the possibilities are endless. But not after 1800. It is SUPER difficult after 1800. We'd need a worldwide Zionist conspiracy or something .

 

[TapReflex]

Well, as ^ said, it is unrealistic to do what you've asked with that PoD.

However, You could have say, Russia or The Dutch (perhaps even Portugal, Spain, or France get in on this) intervene during the Indian Mutiny in 1857, and walk away with some protectorates and allies.

 

[Doctor Imperialism]

Hm. Would 1750 be doable?

 

[PoeFacedKilla]

Hm. Would 1750 be doable?

I don't think it would, by that time the British were already the dominant colonial power, you'd really have to have France win every war with england;
and then an eventual beat down that neutralizes them (OTL Napoleon).

But, I think there are other ways. The dominant colonial power is going to dominate India though, so whomever that may be there's nothing any other country could do when you have a great navy.

 

[B_Munro]

French invent steamship, Napoleon conquers Britain, gains India in spoils.

There, that was easy.

Bruce

 

[Elfwine]

French invent steamship, Napoleon conquers Britain, gains India in spoils.

There, that was easy.

Bruce

Inventing the steamship does not automatically equal a naval victory over Britain.

It's a good start, maybe, but it's going to take a little more than that - especially given how vulnerable paddle wheelers are, and how much that interferes with a good broadside by the ship equipped with them.

 

[B_Munro]

Inventing the steamship does not automatically equal a naval victory over Britain.

It's a good start, maybe, but it's going to take a little more than that - especially given how vulnerable paddle wheelers are, and how much that interferes with a good broadside by the ship equipped with them.

Perhaps I should have added more smilies? But since you are taking this seriously, how good were early 1800s British ships at tacking upwind?

Bruce

 

[Elfwine]

Perhaps I should have added more smilies? But since you are taking this seriously, how good were early 1800s British ships at tacking upwind?

Bruce

Well, a on it's own isn't a very good sign of a joke.

Not sure on he tacking issue - but are the French going to convert to replace all their warships with steamships? Where are they getting the coal?

Why aren't the British building steamships in response?

 

[longtimer]

france India

I Think The best realistic POD is : Champlain in India and not in Quebec around 1630. Louis XIV (as always) will be the turning point : if he choose a colonial politic and a lesser aggressive continental politic (no claim for a frontier on the Rhin)

France seize the netherland colonies of India during the war of devolution 1667-1668 and gain a better foothold in the subcontinent. France can control the south half of india in 1750. Wars against england will go easier : stronger navy and plausible attack during the english revolutions. England will be in a hole after the Louis XIV war or the austrian sucession war.

They will need Mauritius or la Reunion island for supply and can have a go at south africa during Louis XIV reign.

Quebec will be smaller in late XVII but will grow faster in XVIII because France will have a bigger navy and a real colonial politic. So no french on the Ohio in 1754. France will have stronger atlantic provinces in quebec : french acadia and more french people along the st laurent because furs will be a lesser trade concern. The fight for america : french colonies in US from New amsterdam to Quebec against south US/english colonies.

You will have big big butterflies. France will make better in The Louis XIV wars. Louis XV will have the money, the army and the navy to refom the country. No revolution and no Napoleon. Louis XV or louis XVI can take belgium and luxembourg around 1745. A real FranceWank.

 

[longtimer]

sorry

No french new amsterdam (english in 1664)
Fight for america in late XVIII (170-1780) because quebec is not a threat for english colonies.

 

[Flocculencio]

I Think The best realistic POD is : Champlain in India and not in Quebec around 1630. Louis XIV (as always) will be the turning point : if he choose a colonial politic and a lesser aggressive continental politic (no claim for a frontier on the Rhin)

France seize the netherland colonies of India during the war of devolution 1667-1668 and gain a better foothold in the subcontinent. France can control the south half of india in 1750. Wars against england will go easier : stronger navy and plausible attack during the english revolutions. England will be in a hole after the Louis XIV war or the austrian sucession war.

They will need Mauritius or la Reunion island for supply and can have a go at south africa during Louis XIV reign.

Quebec will be smaller in late XVII but will grow faster in XVIII because France will have a bigger navy and a real colonial politic. So no french on the Ohio in 1754. France will have stronger atlantic provinces in quebec : french acadia and more french people along the st laurent because furs will be a lesser trade concern. The fight for america : french colonies in US from New amsterdam to Quebec against south US/english colonies.

You will have big big butterflies. France will make better in The Louis XIV wars. Louis XV will have the money, the army and the navy to refom the country. No revolution and no Napoleon. Louis XV or louis XVI can take belgium and luxembourg around 1745. A real FranceWank.

He wanted a POD after 1800

 

[Flocculencio]

A POD in the Indian Mutiny could severely cripple British power in India but the trouble is there's no way in which another power cold then build up its own dominance in India to the same effect

 

[longtimer]

after 1800

A POD in the Indian Mutiny could severely cripple British power in India but the trouble is there's no way in which another power cold then build up its own dominance in India to the same effect

Mea Culpa.
I agree no french dominance in India. France can take small part of it with a POD in the napoleonic wars. England and the other empires will never let all india in French hands. After the napoleonic wars, it s ASB for France.

 

[RyuDrago]

I have in mind a Dutch India. The POD is in the Seven Years War with the Netherlands joining the Anglo-Prussian block. From Ceylon and East Indies, the Dutch seized French Indian colonies, and in Europe in the end of the conflict gained even Belgium (so they will have more manpower and resources to better submit India). The Marathi were gradually overthrowed by growing Dutch influence. The British in the Revolutionary/Napoleonic period ceded Bengal in exchange of most, or maybe even all, of Indonesia (I guess in the period of the treaty of Amiens, so in 1802); and then it will be a joke for the Dutch to subjugate the remnants of Moghul Empire and the Indus valley...

 

[Flocculencio]

I have in mind a Dutch India. The POD is in the Seven Years War with the Netherlands joining the Anglo-Prussian block. From Ceylon and East Indies, the Dutch seized French Indian colonies, and in Europe in the end of the conflict gained even Belgium (so they will have more manpower and resources to better submit India). The Marathi were gradually overthrowed by growing Dutch influence. The British in the Revolutionary/Napoleonic period ceded Bengal in exchange of most, or maybe even all, of Indonesia (I guess in the period of the treaty of Amiens, so in 1802); and then it will be a joke for the Dutch to subjugate the remnants of Moghul Empire and the Indus valley...

That's really going to be difficult to pull off. Even with Belgium, the Netherlands will be punching above it's weight (especially given the domestic problems that may arise with Flanders as part of the Netherlands). IOTL the Netherlands only ever really directly controlled Java up to the late 19th C- Sumatra was under much looser control as were many of the other islands. India is a far bigger nut to crack.

 

[Corder]

I know its ASB, but no one mentioned the Russians invading either via Afghanistan or Persia? Its might take a couple of wars. Russian victory in the Crimea means territorial gains in eastern Turkey. That's a jumping off point for a war with Persia. Or a pro-Russian coup or succession in Persia means the Russians have a secure route to India...very ASB.

 

[El Danoo]

France invades Britain during the Seven Years War, forces peace and gains some serious territorial gains in India. France slowly takes over India using the same methods as the British.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

One of my threads had a Prussian Raj, despite the fact that I was originally going to have India partitioned between Prussia and China. On the other hand, could an outward looking Qing Dynasty be able to conquer parts or all of India? Overall, my suggestion could be a Chinese Raj.

 

[Flocculencio]

One of my threads had a Prussian Raj, despite the fact that I was originally going to have India partitioned between Prussia and China. On the other hand, could an outward looking Qing Dynasty be able to conquer parts or all of India? Overall, my suggestion could be a Chinese Raj.

Serious overstretch.