With a PoD of after 1947, is it possible for either West or East Germany to acquire nuclear weapons for their own military (that is, not like Turkey or Cuba where there are just some American or Soviet nukes and missiles kept there for easy use, but a completely independent nuclear force independent of the superpowers akin to the weapons programs of China, France or Great Britain)?
AH Challenge: Nuclear Germany
- Thread starter Aussie Guy
- Start date
no, mate, under the FRG's Constitution/Basic Law, I believe that nuclear weapons would be totally outlawed. On top of that, given Germany's sense of post-WWII collective guilt for Hitler & the Final Solution, the thought of being nuclear-armed would be anathema.
Franz Josef Strauß, west-german Minister of Defense from 1956-1962 surly wanted nukes for the Bundeswehr. In his memoires he said, that there was in the fifties an agrement with the IV. french republic. West-Germany should finacielly support the french nuke-program and therefor France would give some nukes to West-Germany. But then DeGaulle came to power and he wanted a frech-only program. So, if DeGaulle doesn´t come to power, West-Germany will propably get french nukes in the sixties.
I don't see the feasibility of either side getting nukes. The Soviets aren't stupid enough to allow one of their satellites to develop nuclear weapons and threaten their grip on the Eastern bloc. On the other side of the wall, judging by the strength of the Green Party in West Germany, as well as pacifists and the collective guilt of WWII, not to mention the fear the world has of a strong Germany at this point, the possibility of Germany in any way attaining nuclear weapons is quite impossible regardless of what certain German politicians may have wanted.
Wyragen-TXRG4P
Banned
Just have a WW3 scenario where Germany is nearly nuked for not having nuclear weapons and learn it´s lessons in the post-war years. 
altamiro
Banned
At least concerning West Germany, none of this applies in late 1950s/early 1960s. Green Party was not founded until early 1980s, even it`s predecessor movements and the student movement was not that strong before late 1960s. At the same time, in the face of the perceived Soviet threat, the fear of strong Germany - firmly in the Western camp - did not have a high priority any more.
It was more strategic and military considerations that persuaded Geran government of the time to drop the idea. Later on it wouldn't be possible indeed.
Politicaly or technicaly?
Tecnicaly I think you need no POD whatsoever. Japan could probably aquire nuclear weapons in as little as a year if they decided to. I would suspect Germany needs little more, but I could be wrong
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/japan/nuke/index.html
Faeelin
Banned
Bingo. What's odd is that America seemed to be okay with it, with at least some suppport for a nuclear Germany.
Germany was already bound by the so called "Paris Agreements" never to produce atomic, biological or chemical weapons (Protocol No. III (and Annexes) on the Control of Armaments, October 23, 19http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/we005.asp#154).
Since 1961 § 17 of the German War Weapons Control Act explicitly forbids the development, production, import, export, transport and possession of nuclear weapons in any form or kind. § 16 excepts only those nuclear weapons which fall under the NATO. § 18 includes the same ban on biological and chemical weapons. Keep in mind that this act was decided upon by an absolute majority of the CDU/CSU which supported nuclear armament and during a period of growing tension with the USSR.
Therefore you will need a PoD long before 1961 to get there. Since remilitarisation started only in 1954 and the PoD should not be before 1947 there is only a small window to accomplish a complete reversal of the mainstream thinking to support such an act. One hast to consider that remilitarisation in itself was already a hot issue and faced hard resistance. Germany learned its lesson one might say and I am glad it did.
At last one has to consider that the German Bundeswehr was nuclear armed via the "nuclear sharing" since 1958. There was no need for the Allies to allow Germany to produce its own weapons.
I consider this possibility highly unlikely. Perhaps if the Western Allies would need German help for their own production (for example financing the French project as already suggested) and with Strauß as secretary of defense there might be a small opportunity. At least this will cost the CDU/CSU its absolute majority in the elections of 1957, although it may still stay in power perhaps in a coalition with the DP. How the Western allies come to need German money or other help so badly to allow them an atomic weapons production of their own with a PoD as late as 1947 I cannot conceive.
Kind regards,
G.
Since 1961 § 17 of the German War Weapons Control Act explicitly forbids the development, production, import, export, transport and possession of nuclear weapons in any form or kind. § 16 excepts only those nuclear weapons which fall under the NATO. § 18 includes the same ban on biological and chemical weapons. Keep in mind that this act was decided upon by an absolute majority of the CDU/CSU which supported nuclear armament and during a period of growing tension with the USSR.
Therefore you will need a PoD long before 1961 to get there. Since remilitarisation started only in 1954 and the PoD should not be before 1947 there is only a small window to accomplish a complete reversal of the mainstream thinking to support such an act. One hast to consider that remilitarisation in itself was already a hot issue and faced hard resistance. Germany learned its lesson one might say and I am glad it did.
At last one has to consider that the German Bundeswehr was nuclear armed via the "nuclear sharing" since 1958. There was no need for the Allies to allow Germany to produce its own weapons.
I consider this possibility highly unlikely. Perhaps if the Western Allies would need German help for their own production (for example financing the French project as already suggested) and with Strauß as secretary of defense there might be a small opportunity. At least this will cost the CDU/CSU its absolute majority in the elections of 1957, although it may still stay in power perhaps in a coalition with the DP. How the Western allies come to need German money or other help so badly to allow them an atomic weapons production of their own with a PoD as late as 1947 I cannot conceive.
Kind regards,
G.
There is actually a book on this theme, unfortunalety I do not remember
neither title nor writer, I think it was written in the early 80ies.
The story in short is that the German chancellor is irritated both
on the US and Russia and he decides to obtain his own nuclear
arsenal with mobile launchers about 200 of them I think, after that
he summons the American president and the Russian premier to Munchen and inform them of this fact, after that he tells them
to get the hell out of Germany, both of them. I will try to find out the title
and get back to you, it is a pretty good book.
neither title nor writer, I think it was written in the early 80ies.
The story in short is that the German chancellor is irritated both
on the US and Russia and he decides to obtain his own nuclear
arsenal with mobile launchers about 200 of them I think, after that
he summons the American president and the Russian premier to Munchen and inform them of this fact, after that he tells them
to get the hell out of Germany, both of them. I will try to find out the title
and get back to you, it is a pretty good book.
The Last Days Of America by Paul Erdman. Actually, the chancellor in this book is Franz Josef Strauß. It was one of this polit-thrillers, which was already at his publishing date alternate history.
Thank you very much, I have thought of this book for a couple
of years but when you do not know neither the title or writer
it is difficult much obliged.
I could certainly see them wanting them. Though they'd be hard pressed to fund a program. They'd definitely need outside help.
Some CIA spy scenario where the US helps them in exchange for alienating themselves from the Eastern bloc, leading to earlier reunification maybe? Maybe..
If not the program's going to be so small it'd take until the 80's for them to finish it. Especially without Mother Russia catching hint.