AH Challenge: Communist Israel
- Thread starter glenn67
- Start date
Deleted member 9338
Considering the support that the Soviet Union gave (ok sold) to Israel it would of been easy to push the socialist state towards communism is there was a less forceful Stalinst bent.
You do realize that Israel was effectively a Communist nation until the 1960s, right? Just have the Soviet Union instead of the US start giving Israel support after 1967, and we'll continue that tendency instead of gradually going against it.
Not necessarily. The Soviet Union backed the Israelis in the beginning (first nation to recognize Israel), and early Israel was home to a large number of Communists. To be honest, Israel was probably the most likely Middle eastern state to actually become communist. And even if this is ignored, the Israelis have been pragmatic enough in their foreign relations over the years that most would not have any really difficulty with an alliance with the Soviets if it was in their best interests.
Needless to say, during the ensuing decades this would change, as America alienated the Arab states and Israel drew closer to the western powers.
IMO a good way to start would be to have the Americans and Arabs stay on relativly good terms (maybe they dont push as hard to contain communism). The soviets would be looking for allies in the region, and it would only be natural that they turned to Israel, one of their best diplomatic prospects in the region.
I think that it would work if, like other people said, the Soviets gave much more aid to try and win over the jews, as well as influential jews all over the west moving to the new state as well as communists wanting to experiment in this new country. If Israel continued its very agressive foreign policy it could have alienated the Arabs and the West and formed an alliance with Russia.
This could be fun seeing as Palestine could degrade into a more 'civilized' and religiously charged Vietnam war...
Off topic: The flag is cool but it would be more realistic if they replaced the blue bands in the flag with red one. Like that the Star would still be the main focus but the communist colour will be present. Someone?
Jim
This could be fun seeing as Palestine could degrade into a more 'civilized' and religiously charged Vietnam war...
Off topic: The flag is cool but it would be more realistic if they replaced the blue bands in the flag with red one. Like that the Star would still be the main focus but the communist colour will be present. Someone?
Jim
CanadianGoose
Banned
Poisonous pill of well-equipped "volunteer force" of Red Army vets (with their family kept behind to ensure their loyalty to orders from Moscow) in 1948 would do the trick. Ben Gurion wouldn't be able to resist the temptation.
Arabs control the country in 1948, beating the Israelis, and a communist revolution pushes them back out. The Soviets no longer support the Arab countries, happy with the spread of communism, and ensure Israel's suvival.
Politically though it seems unlikely. Israel was fairly left, as these things go (as was the Yishuv), but it is difficult to imagine it being plausibly Stalinist, particularly given its self-appointed mandate regarding Aliyah, something that doesn't mesh well with turning towards the Soviets. But I think there are ways to make Israel rather less aligned, if the cards are spun right.
CanadianGoose
Banned
There's no contradiction at all between Aliyah and being Soviet puppet. Eastern bloc was engaged in massive population transfers post-WWII anyway (mostly of "expulsion" nature, as in "expulsion of Ethnic Germans from Eastern Prussia", but there was more or less voluntary resettlement in USSR, with peoples moving to big cities which needed post-war rebuilding, or settling newly "liberated" territories). Adding Aliyah to this list would be an easy and natural thing. And make no mistake, 99% of OTL olim (ones who made Aliyah) would go anyway. I mean, being a Jew in ComBloc Israel beats being a Jew in post-war Eastern Europe or Northern Africa any day.
Keenir
Banned
it looks like the Star Of David has a pupil in the eye (that is the Star)..."we are watching you"
I'm already leaning that way in my own timeline, but you've probably guessed that by now.....
Ibn Warraq
Banned
Israel was never a communist nation. If you're thinking of the Kibbutzim, they were never the majority of the population and even they couldn't be classified as communist. You might as well say Sweden was effectively a Communist nation.
CanadianGoose
Banned
Economically? OTL Czech Republic on steroids (somewhere in between OTL $22K per capita Czech GDP and $28K per capita Israeli GDP). Politically? There could be an attempt by Arabs (ITTL ruled by very backward Islamist regimes, puppets of USA) to "get even" (there wouldn't be 1956, 1967, 1973 wars ITTL, USSR wasn't in the mood to let anyone f...ck with their clients), but results would be rather unappetizing for Arabs (as bad as Taliban trying to f...ck with Northern Alliance IOTL, or worse). That is, if Russia wouldn't provide nuclear protection guarantee. Internal conflict between Arab minority and Jewish majority is possible, with disastrous results for Arabs (see Karabakh).
P.S. Once I think about it, I consider Arab war against Israel post-1991 ASB. American Jewry would be less than amused about "Mohameddan tribes" killing their relatives.
Keenir
Banned
I'll grant you that. but how would American Jewry be seen by their countrymen?
I mean, ITTL, the McCarthyism has another potential target besides card-carrying Marxists.
"better Blue than dead" might be an anti-Israeli slur. (highlighting Red support for Israel)
I'm not thinking of the kibbutzim so much as I'm thinking of the fact that the early Israeli economy was run almost entirely by the government. All industry was highly regulated, all luxuries highly rationed. Admittedly, once Israel stropped being a 3rd world country, they repealed all the Austerity Laws and freed the shit out of business, but in the early years? Highly socialistic, to the point of communism.
