A leased fleet

[fester]

This is the start of a POD more than anything else....

During the Battle of France, especially after Operation Dynamo, the British were quite worried about what the French would do with the Fleet as the combined French, Italian, and German fleet would be too much for the Royal Navy to counter in all locations of the empire.

There were discussions/proposals/napkin sketches to form a Franco-British Union (6/14/40)... what about a less extreme proposal?

What if the 3rd French Republic agreed on June 10, 1940 to lease a substantial portion of the French Fleet to the Royal Navy for 10 years. What if there were orders for Richelau, Strausburg, Dunkerque, Bearn, the 1st (heavy) cruiser squadron, a squadron of light cruisers and three or four squadrons of destroyers and submarines apiece were issued for them to sale to British ports on 6/11 for transfer. Crews would be repatriated on neutral or French ships at the earliest convienence.

Payment would be in sterling at 1/10th the construction cost of comparable British ships per year.

 

[Look More Closely Later]

Err...

I have difficulty imagining the Germans letting the French do that. Not if the French want an armistice and an 'unoccupied' zone of France.

 

[jsb]

Isn't this effectively a France Fights On scenario ?

Whats the diffrence of repatriating crews ? May as well stay in the UK out of a german POW camp if they come back after giving the UK sea supremacy.

 

[hairysamarian]

It does seem more likely that various naval units would simply choose to fight on, sailing to British ports and essentially becoming the Free French Navy. How many units, and how significant, would I suppose depend on who made the decision.

 

[hairysamarian]

But that doesn't really answer the question, does it? Well, the biggest problem I see with a lease scenario is the time it would take pettifogging bureaucrats to negotiate it. Plus Vichy France would be forced to repudiate it immediately.

 

[fester]

Formalities

Isn't this effectively a France Fights On scenario ?

Whats the diffrence of repatriating crews ? May as well stay in the UK out of a german POW camp if they come back after giving the UK sea supremacy.

The idea that has been bouncing in the back of my head is that the clauses of repatriations means the crews on board are "merely" delivery crews, and are still under orders and command of the French government. So when the French surrender, the crews are also given up, so they are either repatriated or interned depending on where they are at the moment.

Would some proportion of French crews sign up for the Free French, definately, but the official policy of the French government is that the French Navy is merely delivering ships in a commercial transaction, and the crews are no longer at war.

It is a thin fig leaf, I know, but it is what I'm working with at the moment....

 

[fester]

Possession 9/10ths etc

But that doesn't really answer the question, does it? Well, the biggest problem I see with a lease scenario is the time it would take pettifogging bureaucrats to negotiate it. Plus Vichy France would be forced to repudiate it immediately.

If the ships can get to sea by the 12th (given that they were at sea on June 13th in active combat operations against the Italians), this is plausible, and if the relevant ships make it to Gibralter or Malta or Alexandria, with the flags exchanges, the Brits have firm possession of the ships which makes their strategic problems of Summer 1940 far simpler even if they can't crew those ships for 6 months....

 

[Look More Closely Later]

...

The idea that has been bouncing in the back of my head is that the clauses of repatriations means the crews on board are "merely" delivery crews, and are still under orders and command of the French government. So when the French surrender, the crews are also given up, so they are either repatriated or interned depending on where they are at the moment.

Would some proportion of French crews sign up for the Free French, definately, but the official policy of the French government is that the French Navy is merely delivering ships in a commercial transaction, and the crews are no longer at war.

It is a thin fig leaf, I know, but it is what I'm working with at the moment....

And on the 16th June, once Reynaud is gone and Pétain is in charge, the Germans are going to say to Pétain 'if you want an armistice where there is an unoccupied zone and where France and its empire continue to be administered by Frenchmen, then inform the British that the deal is off, turn around all ships that have not yet reached British ports, and demand the return of all others to France'.
And Pétain (and Darlan) will say 'Oui monsieur', because from their perspective it's obvious that the British are going to surrender or be conquered soon, anyway, and this 'lease' is absolutely crap value for France - not least since it will be equally 'obvious' to Pétain (and Darlan) that the British will put any leased French ships in the front line of fire, because the British don't have to pay anything for any ships that get sunk under this proposed deal.
Edit:
This is assuming that Reynaud isn't brought down the moment word of this 'lease' gets out, lacking as it does any kind of 'if you happen to lose any of the ships that we are leasing to you...' penalty clause.

 

[jsb]

It is a thin fig leaf, I know, but it is what I'm working with at the moment....

But this requires legal fig leafs to be respected by the Nazis any more than any other legal bit of paper ........................