A challenge

Superdude

Banned
I've been thinking about this one for a little while....

The USA becomes close allies with Russia after the American Civil War.

The pod I think should be if Britain becomes so pissed off about the seizure of a British ship carrying those two Confederate amabassadors.

Now, I would think that Britain's national pride calls for it to support the rebels in the South. So, Britain starts sending greater amounts of supplies and weapons, which leads to an armed naval confrontation with the United States, and to a reinforcment of British Canada. This leads to war between the two powers, but neither side really wins, as neither are able to take much offensive action on the other- Both are too distracted by other events. However, since assuming the British Navy would end the blockade around the South, the war still ends with a Union victory, but in 1866.

However, this leaves a few things:

Britain and the USA are now essentially competing powers in North America, and alot more aggressive towards each other.

France's takeover of Mexico is supported by the British. They both threaten war if the USA takes any action. The Monroe Doctrine is now defunct, as the USA backs off, not wanting another war so soon after the last.

However, there was one power that wasn't hostile to the United States: Russia.

Could the USA have developed a friendship with them? The USA would realized the strength's of such an alliance, since it was now surrounded by European opponents. And Russia would have as well, since it too was an opponent of Britian and France.

How would things have turned out if they had? So, make a timeline about it.
 

Raymann

Banned
Welcome to the board...make your own damn timeline.

Your POD isn't really a POD, its exactly what happened. You need something else to make the Trent Affair worse. If you want to keep Britian busy, have an extended Second Opium War or something. When the US wins the war, whats stopping them from taking a million man army into Canada? And then down into Mexico? If the US wins the Civil War, there is no way Britian can contest them on land.

Russia had been friendly with the US since they lost the Crimean War, thats one reason they eventually sold Alaska to the US. I'm not sure if the US is ready for an alliance then, Washington's words still meant something then but in trade for say...some of Siberia the US might change its mind.
 

Superdude

Banned
Fine. I will start my own damn timeline. Thank you for reminding me of the Trent affair, I couldn't remember the name.

June 1866: Lee's army of Northern Virginia, at the third Battle of Bull Run, finally surrenders. Its men's morale had been annihilated by Sherman's March to the sea and the destruction of the Southern infrastructure. There seemed to be no reason to fight any more. Davis had been caught about 6 months earlier. With Lee's army's surrender, the Southern resistance collapses, and is forcibly brought back into the Union.

July: With the Confederacy's collapse, the British realize that they cannot possibly win against an angered United States, and panic. They ask for French assistance against the United States. It seems likely that France will join the war. Forces mass on both sides of the Mexican-American border.

August: Disaster is averted. Abraham Lincoln asks for peace talks with Britain. No concessions are won by either side, and it is merely a return to the status quo. Both nations believe this isn't finished.

September: The USA isn't finished with France's attack on the Monroe Doctrine in Mexico. War once again seems likely. However, Britain decides that it doesn't wants its comrade France, competitor and untrustworthy though it may be, should not lose Mexico to the Yankees. The British send men to Mexico to reinforce the French. France, bolstered by Britain's commitment, refuse to leave Mexico. The USA, devastated by the much longer Civil War, decides to not press the point of Mexico, but does send aid to Mexican rebels.

Russia, seeing how the USA has made enemies with Britain and France, is interested in the possibilities of a closer relationship with Americans. Americans, however, are not ready for an alliance.

October: With war diverted, the USA picks up the pieces. Reconstruction is much less harsh to the South, because Lincoln stays alive due to the Confederate plot to assassinate him being a failure. The conspirators are discovered before major harm could be done, and are locked up.

Skip ahead about 20 years, to 1886 (this is really general stuff). Reconstruction is far more successful, so the South is reintegrated more successfully. There is also a larger industrial build-up in the South. So, the USA emerges stronger after the war than it had ever been. Also, the USA has forgotten its old isolation. Being surrounded on all sides by the two greatest powers, the USA finally signed a mutual-defense treaty with the Russian Empire in the 1870s, and has mantained a large proffesional army, as well as built up its navy greatly. There have been several close calls concerning war (Like the Cuban Crisis of 1881, where the USA signed an agreement with Spain to build naval bases in Cuba,which the Brits wholeheartedly objected to, and even believed that a war would need to be fought to maintain their Caribbean security) but thanfully, they have come to nothing.

In Europe, the creation of Imperial Germany has screwed up the European balance of power. The French are really angry at their former companions the Brits for not coming to their aide in the Franc-Prussian War, but also believe that Britain is The British are also scared of Germany, but are one hell of alot more scared of the USA's navy, which at this point is nearly equal in number to Britain's, and some believe that American ships are of higher quality. The USA and Germany seem to be cordial enough, and have established economic ties, but nothing more. Russia is pretty much the same way, but seems to recognize that Germany will be supremely important in the future.

Russia, at this moment is being given great support from the USA to help them modernize. Money, raw materials, parts, are all being shipped to Russia. However, Russia is experiencing increasing American influence on its soil. It is becoming fashionable in Russia to speak English over French. This comes at a great price to the Monarchy. Many court officials are now screaming for Consitutional Monarchy. It seems that, finally, Russia with American influence, will be a modern nation.

I wish I was a better timeline writer, but Im just too lazy to bring specifics or anything.
 
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Raymann

Banned
Well, its just that a US/Russian alliance is tricky once you hit the 20th century. Friends with Russia means you're an enemy of germany and a friend of France (uck). Unless Britian allies with Germany, you're somehow their ally?

That why Washington said to avoid entangeling alliances.
 
Well for awhile the US would be friends with Germany, Austria, and Russia when they were the Three Empires. If the US was the fourth and decided to shift with Germany instead you'd get Germany, A-H, USA, and Italy before WW2.
 

Superdude

Banned
Oh yeah, I started my timeline in my post up there.

And yes, thats what i was thinking too. America will most likely be allies with France and Russia, against Germany, Austria, and Italy.. These alliances will be competing with each other. Britain will be wild card in these games.

Also, expect a very different take over of Asia,, and a different Japanese rise to prominence.
 
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Superdude

Banned
Alright. Done.

1886-1902: The Calm



1886: Celebrations go off into the night, as the New Year in Russia is finally come. The nation seems drunk off the success of the previous year. The completion of the Siberian Railroad, the take over of Mongolia from China, and the rapidly industrializing and growing economy, all show that times are changing in Russia.

Within 12 hours of the start of the New Year, protestors come out into the streets. Thousands upon thousands upon tens of thousands all over the nation. They sing the national anthem, wave the Russian flag, and are generally peaceful. However, they want change. They want democracy.

The Czar is put into a horrible predicament. Destroying these marches would simply cause a general uprising, and no Czar wants to go the way of the French king. Also, it would sour relations with the United States, who is sending money, parts, and technology to Russia to help it modernize, and is Russia's only ally.

Alexander doesn't want to make such a decision. He hands it over to his court, hoping they will come up with an acceptable solution. Unbeknownst to him, his court secretly supported the revolution that was taking place, in exchange for government positions later on. Also, some had heard of a writer called Marx, and believed those teaching were deadly. So, they presented the solution: Surrender to the demands.

Alexander, unhappily and quite angrily is forced into signing the new Constitutional government several months later.




This comes as a shock to the rest of Europe, and the world. No one could have expected such a response from the man who restated serfdom in Russia. Also, the two formerly powerful empires of Austria and the Ottoman Empire see this as a threat to their power. The fall of the Russian autocratic state to a democratic one is seen as the greatest opportunity to begin a revolution of their own.

However, the Austrian and Ottoman Empires, when they move in to clamp down on revolutionaries, soon find themselves royally screwed, as once one ethnic group decides it wants freedom, the rest decide the same. Both empires decide on martial law. This is to have the direst consequences, as one dead author takes the hearts of the Balkan nations with his book called "The Communist Manifesto." The ominous shadow of Communism begins to take root in the two oldest European empires.

Nothing else of importance takes place until 1894, when the Western Hemisphere explodes with activity. Spain had been at odds for several years with the USA, and has been to some extent supported by France. However, with France becoming more and more militarist and more focused on French affairs, Spain is left behind. The USA quickly offers an ultimatum to Spain: Leave Cuba and your American colonies, or you will be attacked by American forces. With typical Spanish pride, Spain declares itself above the Yankees, the USA declares war, and so starts the Spanish-American War, on April 17th, 1894. The USA brushes aside the paltry Spanish navy in Havana, and takes the city in the opening move.

Spanish forces counterattack Havana, and for three days and 4 nights the Battle of Havana rages on. It becomes apparent that the Spanish seem willing to fight. This is soon found to be entirely false. The soldiers were volunteer regiments of the British Army. War soon threatens between the USA and Britain. This point becomes moot, as the war ends about a week later, as Japan swiftly moves its navy in and grabs the Philippines right under the Spanish noses. With the fall of its overseas possessions, Spain is forced into peace. Cuba is grabbed and "liberated" by the USA; it becomes a territorial government, as does Puerto Rico.

2 months later, in June, there is a violent uprising in Serbia, shortly followed by revolts all across the Ottoman Empire. Ottoman forces cannot keep it in check. The Old Man of Europe had lost his crutches, and was soon falling apart. Bulgaria, Serbia and Albania declare themselves seperate nations, and then attack the Ottomans. Greece joins in, and so began the Balkan War of Independence. However, this revolt scared the world. Why? Because as soon as Bulgaria, Serbia, and Albania declared themselves independent, they also declared themselves Communist. The people of these nations are willing to back anyone who takes them from Ottoman rule.

Bulgaria and Greece steadily advance towards Istanbul, as it seems the Ottoman line is faltering against the determined foes. However, at the last minute, surprise reinforcements come from Istanbul, and the line is shored up. Both sides begin to entrench, and a stalemate ensues. The Ottomans try to mount offensives all along the line, but they are repulsed, and soon the counterattack drives the Ottomans back. The Turks realize they can't win this war against such determined foes, who are thought to be supported by Italy and Britain. They sign the treaty recognizing the independence of the 3 nations. The western world is aghast, as soon revolutionaries from these 3 countries leak into the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Germany quietly sends in several divisions to augment Austrian power.

However, Russia does not like this. They do some saber rattling in the west, while they force the Ottomans to give up territory and threaten war if their demands are not met. The Ottomans are teetering on the brink of collapse, and so decide its best to give up their territory in Iran and the Caucausus.

Russia now has an invasion route to British India.

The French, realizing that they never will be able to beat Germany alone, decide they want a part in the American-Russian Alliance. After negotiations, the decision is made- France is now a member of the Grand Alliance.

Britain is now very afraid. Britain has managed to keep itself ahead of the USA in the battleship game, but not by much. With France on its side, Britain would be doomed in a naval confrontation. However...

Germany's growing naval strength is also a concern, but such an alliance would be beneficial to both sides. Germany does not seem to be a threat at this time, and could be a useful ally.

In 1898, Russia takes Manchuria, and defeats the Japanese in a very short war over who has power over these areas.

There is aggressive competiton between the Great Powers over who has a piece of the Chinese pie. This leads to great anger among the Chinese.

In 1900, the Boxer Rebellion occurs, leading to the complete collapse of Chinese power in Asia. Tension remains high between the Grand Alliance and the Triple Alliance, since Britain has joined in with Germany and Austria. Also, Russia has extended some support to the 3 Communist Balkan nations. This has caused massive anger among the Austro-Hungarians. Also, there is a resurgence of Turkish nationalism, which calls for the reclamation of the lost territory in Asia and the Balkans.


So when 1902 comes around, the world is pretty much set for war.

However, a catalyst is needed. And there are a plethora of them.

In March of 1902, German cavalrymen get into a skirmish with American troops in China. This leads to both nations screaming at each other. Germany blames the USA for letting all the "dirty yellows over the border". The USA responds that the Germans attacked them on purpose. Well, this may have been something everyone forgot about. But when a Bulgarian communist is assassinates a Hungarian official, tensions explode almost immediately. Russia has extended its protection over the Slavs in the region, and when Austria declares war on the Serbia, Albania, and Bulgaria, Russia threatens the empire to back down, or Russia will declare war. The Turks move in yelling about the Russian thieves, and the British move in yelling about the Russian invasion plan of India.

And yet, the Great war begins in Turkey, when an Ottoman army attacks Russian garrisons in Iran and the Caucausus. The Russians declare war, but unbeknownst to them, the British had signed a secret alliance with the Ottomans. Britain declares war, France and the USA declare war on Britain, and Austria-Hungary and Germany delcare war on them.

And so begins the Great War,.
 
It should be noted that there was indeed an elected Imperial Council in Austria (not Hungary) following the creation of Austria-Hungary... The Emperor was mostly forced to rule by decree because ethnic rivalries prevented anything from getting done. Hungary, I believe, was simply ruled by the minority Magyars who basicaly opressed anyone they felt like, so I suppose conditions are ripe there.
 

Superdude

Banned
Straha said:
Reconstruction would be worse with the south being a permanent rebellious sore.


I doubt that. Reconstruction failed because the Republican controlled Congress wanted revenge on the Confederates after Lincoln's assassination.. Without that, the Confederates are quietly forgiven for their transgression. They essentially see no reason to continue the fight, as the Northerners aren't the evil industrialist who want to destroy the southern way of life. They want to be friends. So there would be most likely less Southern discontent.

Also, the South is more definitively defeated in battle. Lee's army instead of retreating, turns around and fights Grant's army, and is defeated. Lee surrenders, and it seems that the southern cause wasn't worth so much destruction.

Also, there are more all Black regiments. People begin to respect the blacks as fighting men. This leads to less support of slavery. Also, the south would be propped up instead of held down by the North, and so it would industrialize faster.
 
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