Okay, looking back at the disastrous use by British of carriers for ASW patrols in the early part of the I got to thinking, how would the war gone if, instead of HMS Courageous receiving two torpedoes from U-29, putting her in sinking condition, while HMS Ark Royal in its fight with U-39, got away scot-free, both carriers had received one torpedo each? Would two carriers damaged have been better or worse in the long term than one carrier sunk and one completely undamaged?
1939 WI: Two torpedoes for two carriers
- Thread starter MattII
- Start date
IMVHO it would have been better for the following reasons.
Two damaged carriers in dock are going to make the Admiralty very careful over what happens to their remaining carriers. This could well save Glorious in 1940 and that would definitely be a bonus. Also damage control experience on both carriers would be lessons learnt and this might well save ships (Ark Royal included) later in the war.
Further with two carriers out of action for months the ADC's might well get even more priority and be ready some months earlier, another bonus.
Two damaged carriers in dock are going to make the Admiralty very careful over what happens to their remaining carriers. This could well save Glorious in 1940 and that would definitely be a bonus. Also damage control experience on both carriers would be lessons learnt and this might well save ships (Ark Royal included) later in the war.
Further with two carriers out of action for months the ADC's might well get even more priority and be ready some months earlier, another bonus.
I think two damaged would have been much better than one sunk because heavy loss of life (like from the IOTL sinking of HMS Courageous) would probably not have happened. More trained crews to pass on skills, etc. Also I think Allied control of the sea was acceptably secure in September 1939 and would remain secure until June 1940 when the French fleet was out and the Italian fleet was in. I think that’s a reasonable amount of time for repairs to be made…consider the implications of another carrier for the Taranto.
An excellent question, good sir!
Definitely a good thing not to loose one's carriers in operations that they are ill-suited for. Aircraft are good for submarine hunting, Aircraft carriers, not so much. With lessons learned, I would expect that more and better ASW doctrine would be rapidly developed and implemented by the RN.
On top of the DC experience, the lack of experience of Courageous rapidly capsizing with most of her crew, as well as the obvious benefit to said crew, might have saved the Ark on its own because it was in part due to that history that Maund ordered abandon ship prematurely.
Aircraft carriers are excellent for submarine hunting. It's when you use fleet carriers for the job that you've got a problem.
I do remember in the game nuclear war game DEFCON, the naval unit "aircraft carrier" is uses depth charges to hunt for submarines. Even in the 1960s-90s, every USN carrier was alleged to have carrier nuclear weapons including nuclear depth charges.
So going back to WWII, carriers can be used to hunt for submarines. It's just a matter of luck if the sub gets the chance to the torpedo a carrier or if the carrier was directly above the sub to throw some depth charges.
You have to have your basics sorted out first.
Going back to my Warcraft days, you need to have your infantry screen before you have your archers, and your archers before you get your ballistas. In this case you need your escorts working before your carriers of whatever type can start operating safely. It is worth remembering that fleet carriers spend most of their time doing ASW ops for whatever fleet they were with as part of their normal duties. The question of where you put an aircraft carrier next to a slow old convoy was still being worked out.
I should probably clarify.
Any aircraft carrier can be an effective platform, from which her aircraft can go a sub hunting, but aircraft carriers need to turn into the wind, and maintain a steady course for the launching and recovering of her aircraft. If this is done over the horizon from the submarines last known position, great. If this is done within sight of the submarine, not so great.
Or just give one of your most powerful fleet units more than 2 DDs as escort.....2 having been sent away earlier....
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
You also save hundreds of experienced crew who went down with Courageous
In the end this is much more important than saving the ship. Ships can be replaced but but not those pre war trained long service professionals.
IIRC is was Courageous’s crew that had been prepped and trained for a Taranto style port strike as well.
Along with Glorious's. The Taranto raid was planned to use both in during the Abyssinian crisis.