With how the election will most likely go especially with Reagan as the nominee I can see some a lot of moderates not just Ford but a lot of them just not liking the direction the party is going and jumping ship.
Blue Skies in Camelot (Continued): An Alternate 80s and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
- Start date
"Vietnam managed to peacefully reunite in 1973, following a referendum that allowed for power sharing between the communists in Hanoi and the capitalists in Saigon." - good legacy for Kennedy indeed.
"was seen as a failure by the Romney and Bush administrations." - Camodia will be a terrible aspect of their legacy indeed.
"when Pol Pot was betrayed and killed in a coup by several of his top generals and military advisors." - such a shame. No flowers.
Welcome back King Norodom Sihanouk, there is a lot of work to fix your country!
"eventually led to the Sino-Vietnamese Conflict of 1979." - *sigh* Humans....
"Udall’s calls for Soviet withdrawal went unheeded." - which is a gift to the right in the US.
"Hu’s real pet-project was a series of liberalization reforms for the Chinese economy" - I can see how a nice war to keep the military happy fits into all this.
"He knew that corruption and stagnation in the Soviet economy was a ticking time bomb," - oh so yes. Glad that's recognised at the top!
"That man was 48-year old Mikhail Gorbachev." - I am hoping that Gorbachev does not lead to the end of the USSR this time.
"Andropov encouraged Gorbachev" - canny move there.
Interesting moves all round there. Looking like the 80's will be quite different to OTL, and that is great.
More please!
"was seen as a failure by the Romney and Bush administrations." - Camodia will be a terrible aspect of their legacy indeed.
"when Pol Pot was betrayed and killed in a coup by several of his top generals and military advisors." - such a shame. No flowers.
Welcome back King Norodom Sihanouk, there is a lot of work to fix your country!
"eventually led to the Sino-Vietnamese Conflict of 1979." - *sigh* Humans....
"Udall’s calls for Soviet withdrawal went unheeded." - which is a gift to the right in the US.
"Hu’s real pet-project was a series of liberalization reforms for the Chinese economy" - I can see how a nice war to keep the military happy fits into all this.
"He knew that corruption and stagnation in the Soviet economy was a ticking time bomb," - oh so yes. Glad that's recognised at the top!
"That man was 48-year old Mikhail Gorbachev." - I am hoping that Gorbachev does not lead to the end of the USSR this time.
"Andropov encouraged Gorbachev" - canny move there.
Interesting moves all round there. Looking like the 80's will be quite different to OTL, and that is great.
More please!
Thank you very much!
Glad you enjoyed it. I can't wait to share more with you all.Speaking of a quite different 1980s, I have a question, Mr. President @President_Lincoln . Although Mexico is richer, it was mentioned earlier that there is still a war on drugs. Are there still Mexican drug cartels TTL, and is illegal immigration from the South still a controversial political issue TTL? Does this mean that the American Hispanic community will be smaller?
I would suspect that immigration is a little more Liberal and not such an issue as IOTL. As the culture war is only gaining steam in 1980 and not 1970.
Mr. President, I want to ask my question again on who will be the winners on the beauty pageants like Miss Universe, Miss International, Miss World, and Miss Earth from 1963-Onwards ITTL? Is it going to be just the same IOTL or is it going to be different ITTL?
And also on Bobby Fischer ITTL as well Your Excellency.
Unfortunately, I have to imagine that some version of the Mexican drug cartels are beginning to emerge ITTL as well. The roots for the cartels in the late 60s and 70s (namely, the US launching the War on Drugs) are still planted here, only by President Romney (rather than Nixon IOTL). George Bush escalated the war, and if elected in 1980, Ronald Reagan plans to take it to further heights.
Immigration will also be a political issue ITTL, though its course will depend largely on how the major parties choose to align themselves. Immigration is, of course, one of the trends that made the United States such a major economic power IOTL. That will continue ITTL. I hope to cover the War on Drugs in more detail in a future update, as well as the future course of Mexico (and the rest of Latin America) more generally.
Stay tuned!
I apologize for not answering this question sooner. To admit a bit of ignorance on my part, beauty pageants are something I have virtually zero familiarity with. If I were to comment on them, I fear I would be way out of my depth. Would anyone want to do a guest update on them perhaps?
Mr. Fischer is more or less following his OTL path ITTL. After winning the world championship in 1972, Fischer failed to defend it in 1975, relinquishing the title to Anatoly Karpov by default.
If RFK is elected hypothetically how do you see him handing the war on drugs?
In general, I believe Kennedy would approach drug addiction as a medical issue, a disease to be treated. Universal Healthcare through expanded Medicare would open low to no cost treatment centers, and rehab would be readily available. I could even see him advocating for re-labeling "drug abuse" to "diseases of addiction". He would oppose militarization of the police, support community policing, and emphasize social work and therapy/rehabilitation over punishment in the justice system.
Of course, RFK would need to sell his "restorative" drug policy to the American public and Congress. With crime on the rise nationwide, he'd need to explain how policy helps fight drug use in the long run, over the "feeling" of security offered by more conservative positions.
That's good to know. As for foreign policy, considering the current "hardline" Soviet leadership, in your opinion, Mr. President @President_Lincoln , how would hypothetically RFK handle the "Ewol Commies"? Will he be as belligerent as Reagan or Scoop Jackson? Will he increase defense spending, including plans for a 700-ship Navy?
I could see RFK putting human rights as a cornerstone of his foreign policy similar to Carter IOTL. I doubt he would go as far as Reagan did to fund the Contras in Nicaragua if that even happens. I also doubt RFK would authorise any regime changes. Depending on who his Defence Secretary is maybe the Pentagon would get an increase but not to the levels Reagan gave
Foreign Policy of a Prospective Robert F. Kennedy Administration
Excellent questions. Without giving too much away here, let's take a glimpse into RFK's potential foreign policy.
Bobby Kennedy has had a long, complex journey to become the person he is on the eve of the 1980 presidential election. As a young attorney, freshly graduated from the University of Virginia Law School, Bobby was a fervent anti-Communist. He even worked alongside Roy Cohn under the infamous Joseph McCarthy (a family friend of the Kennedys) for a time in the early 1950s. Later, during the early years of his brother's presidency, Bobby continued his preference for an aggressive foreign policy. The Cuban Missile Crisis, however, represented a major turning point in Kennedy's thinking. As the world stepped right up to the brink of global thermonuclear war and the end of civilization as we know it, RFK learned a valuable lesson: cooler heads prevail. You have to be tough, of course. Bobby Kennedy's entire world view is pure moralistic Catholicism. He believes in an ethical universe. There is good and there is evil. "White hats" and "black hats", he calls them, just like in an old Western film. But sometimes, the people you like are not the "white hats". The world is more nuanced, more complex. You have to be honest with yourself. You have to be fair. As he has matured, he's gained experience, and through that, wisdom. He understands that careful judgement must be exercised when it comes to geopolitics, especially in this thermonuclear age.
A dyed-in-the-wool liberal, Kennedy believes very deeply in individual freedom and autonomy, along with other human rights, like dignity and respect. His foreign policy, if elected, would be human rights-centric, for sure. It would also be tough and confrontational where it can be. The phrase "a fighter for peace" comes to mind. Some have called Bobby Kennedy "ruthless". So amend that to "a ruthless fighter for peace". Kennedy would neither back down from communist aggression, nor aggravate it with provocative geopolitical moves. Immediately, he would likely project strength to the hardliners who have just risen to power in Moscow (Suslov, Ustinov, and Gromyko) while still keeping open backchannel negotiations for renewed détente. Learning from the disastrous Bay of Pigs Invasion, and Romney and Bush's stumbles in Cambodia, Kennedy believes that "military adventurism" is a fool's errand. Kennedy would like to build on the work his brother did in limiting nuclear proliferation. A nuclear "freeze" and even arms-reduction treaties are certainly on the table, if the Soviets will play ball. As a Senator, Kennedy quietly supported President Bush's decision to travel to Beijing, shake hands with Chairman Zhou and recognize the People's Republic of China. Though he favors continued defense of Taiwan as a geopolitical reality, a "One China Policy" that does not recognize Beijing's control over the vast majority of China would be nonsensical.
On a personal level, Bobby has decades of experience as an informal diplomat. First as a well-off Irish-American socialite, then as Secretary of Defense in the latter half of JFK's administration. While Jack was seen as cool and intellectual, "the first Irish-American Brahmin", Bobby is tough, no-nonsense, and morally righteous. "The first Irish-American Puritan".
Hope this helps!
All right geniuses, let's say it one more time. Kennedy-Murphy 1980 - The New Frontiers!
RFK all way! Though I don’t think in the long run the Dems can stay in power, eventually party fatigue will set in.
True! I suspect that if RFK wins in 1980 and then manages to be reelected in 1984, 1988 will be the Republicans' year.
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