Those are big aircraft and keeping them secret would be difficult seeing as how they would most likely be based in occupied countries with eyes everywhere.
Ekhronoplanes effect on operation sea lion
- Thread starter Munrojock2
- Start date
Is your plan to have them load up, cross the channel, unload, recross the channel, load up again, cross the channel again, unload, repeat?
Honestly my plan is ive been on and off this fourum for over a decade and I'm the person on this site not to have a sea lion thread yet so thought I'd change that
You'd need pallets, quite possibly on wheels or rollers for quick turnaround, imo.
Very conveniently.
If the Germans want to throw troops away that badly, I'm sure they could use rowboats. It'd be cheaper.
I can't help thinking that even a Tiger Moth or a Battle could cause a bit of inconvenience by dropping a load of 20kg bombs (or even 4kg) over one of these while it was parked up and unloading.
That's if ypu even needed the bombers, as you'd even get a few minutes warning it was arriving from the Observer Corps, which is plenty for the preregistered artillery to start lobbing shells at the loading zone.
And plan C, after field artilery and light bombers is to have a couple of Spits and Hurricanes waiting around in case it did survive to take off, as it has to start off slow and has very little choice in take off path, so reasonably easy to work out where to hang around to get a good shot at it.
In abstract the technology is a pretty good fit for the problem (fast sealift)
the reality is it has several big problems
1). in 1940 it's a untried technology, even OTL and with decades and decades of technological improvement and resources the ekranoplane didn't really become a thing (and they did try in the USSR). Getting this to actaully work as a system for transporting the planned invasion force (10 divs in the first wave another 30ish after that) is going to take pulling a fully mature and working transport system from theory to practice.
2). The above even if possible, will not happen over night it will take years or even decades of resources, development and commitment. Germany in the 20's and 30's has none of things spare when it comes to planning an invasion of the UK (which remember was not the plan).
3). a fleet of German ekranoplanes only has one target, the UK and everyone will know it, the UK will work on countermeasures
4). As pointed out organizationally this will require the different German military branches working closely together, good luck with that, especially with a tech that inherently blends the responsibilities of 2 of them!
5). Loading and off loading will still be a pinch point and your beach heads will still need to be protected from the RAF, RN and coastal defense forces. Sealift is a massive problem for Sealion, but it is only one of many.
No this is not true not in terms of what was there and not in terms of what 2 divs without supply can do. (Also are you thinking 1941 not 1940?)
Last edited:
350 miles the prototypes speed from the 50s over the 26 miles is 4 minutes but since no jets engines I think its fair to at least double the type for any hypothetical
So you using the top speed all the way, and then assuming that the points of departure and arrival will be the shortest straight line distance between the continent and the UK?
I have no idea what im thinking its just a fun discussion for me but Its intresting across everyone's viewpoints but a similar technology that was seen as impossible in 1940 the turboprop by ge took six months to produce when wittle convinced them and only was not produced cause ge was more interested in seizing the right to produce it fro the British firm an issue the uk has is no where is far from the sea the furthest is 70 miles and although the german leadership were a bunch of children the ground forces were fairly good at working together and a lot more independent than say the japanese where the ijn and the ija were constantly competing and fighting.
That's fair enough and there's no need for you to suddenly pull a fully formed plan for sealion that addresses every possible concern to have a discussion. It's just Sealion has a long history of people saying "aha what about X or Y" in a vacuum while ignoring the harsh reality of it so people are primed to push back if they think they see it.
That said stuff like the 2nd post I quoted doesn't help, there is a difference between what-iffing in general terms and fundamentally incorrect assertions
The Turbo prop wasn't seen as impossible in 1940, it's just like a lot of potential technological advances there's a huge gap between what's technically feasible and what's worth devoting enough resources into making a deployable thing that fits into a doctrine during wartime. Especially if resources are a limiting factor.
The irony is that in war resources do get marshalled so it is potentially possible for new tech to get fast tracked if everyone agrees to it and there's a proper plan to do so. But well see the points I made in my first post on this, and even then resources are still an issue.
something the UK has been very well aware for a very long time and devotes it's attention and resources to accordingly
Only they will need both LW or KM to get them there with these, unless you are going to create an entirely new air/sea transport force within the Heer for one operation. If so neither the LW or KM will be happy with that and you are going to start from scratch during a period when you already rebuilding the Heer for blitzkrieg operations against France and the USSR. And even then Sealion will still need the LW and KM to work even if they are not flying these things.
Last edited:
... well, yeah, anything below OTL D-Day capacities is rendered unworthy to be considered here around
It's not so much that anything less than D-Day levels of resources and planning is unworthy of consideration, different contexts are different after all. But D-Day does show the levels of complexity involved in a modern seaborne landing, especially a contested one. And while there might not be an Atlantic wall waiting for Sealion on the beaches of Kent and Sussex, nor any panzer divs inland, but on D-Day the Wallies had air and sea supremacy on the beaches and approaches. On top of that the wallies had developed through a series of seaborne operations a body of knowledge in this area, the Axis not so much.
The actual D-Day landing is roughly the size of the proposed 1st wave of Sealion
Last edited:
You what?
The British sent about 12 Divisions to France (5 Regular, 1 Armoured which was deployed piecemeal, 5 TA Divisions and 1 Canadian as part of the 2nd BEF which almost immediately returned) 11 of them got back and a Brigade of the 12 (51st Highlander Division which was the only division destroyed) did as well
There was the rest of the Divisions working up in the UK
In all 27 Divisions on the British Mainland.
Plus about a million Militia (Home Guard) which where more or less armed by Sept
So unless your German division has 2,5 million men.......
I think your 3rd point is incorrect. Before the Fall of France, Norway, Sweden Denmark, the Baltic States, Poland, Soviet union, Netherlands, Belgium and Northern France are all possible and more likely targets. Of course, Britain will - quite rightly - assume it is the intended goal, and if they have any sense, the other countries will be thinking the same way too.
Expect obstacles and mines at likely landing areas, field and coastal artillery preregistered on likely landing/unloading sites, and maybe a few fast launches with twin or quad HMGs [1] to strike landing areas and then zoom off leaving a well ventilated plane.
[1] they'd want 20mm cannon, though a maxim pompom would do a number on an ekranoplane as it was loading/unloading or taxiing