To the Victor, Go the Spoils (Redux): A Plausible Central Powers Victory

Also appears to be a map of the original Greco-Ottoman border prior to the First Balkan War, not a Central Powers war aim map, as can be seen from the occupation zones - thus, I suspect, why they've not come back and answered me when I asked what their source was.
My apologies, I could not find the source. But the reason I said so was I recalled hearing a while back that it had been agreed upon that Bulgaria would get its borders from the first balkan war back from Greece, in exchange for Greece getting Northern Epirus from Albania, as Kaiser Wilhelm wanted to balance the arrangement of power in the balkans.

As I said, I couldn't locate the source so YMMV.
 
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@TheReformer

So, it does sound like the deal was only for the restoration of territory lost to greece after the first Balkan war.
 
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@TheReformer

So, it does sound like the deal was only for the restoration of territory lost to greece after the first Balkan war.
That was before Bulgaria marched into Thessaloniki in this timeline. Greece practically collapsed due to a coup. Their negotiating position was quite bad. They can't seriously argue against losing these relatively sparsely populated and underdeveloped territories. All things considered the Germans are being lenient with them with this treaty IMO.
 

The Reformer, have you seen the hyperlink above? It shows the Central Powers winning WW1 with a March 1918 pod, albeit with a less possible Spanish Flu reaching Germany faster in Germany and Ludendorff's death from the flu that month as the pod instead of your pod.
 
First, I'd like to say that this timeline is the reason I made a account for this website, so congrats on the great work TheReformer. I initially wanted to jump in on the Bulgarian border bit, but that was solved it seems (the border posted was of the post-First Balkan War one). However, I seem to recall a somewhat short comment/discussion on what would become of Belgium TTL and I disagree what I seem to remember of it, that Belgium "would just shift to rely on the Flemish population". This is a misunderstanding of the nature of Belgium's internal dynamics. Belgium's internal dynamic really is trifold, not dual. Power historically laid with the Francophone upper and middle class of Flanders and only after WW2 would Dutch become a language for the upper class as well, with the best example for this being that a official Dutch version of the Belgian constitution was only published in 1967. This part of the population mainly earned its wealth off of the Wallonian industry that then flowed north to mainly Brussels but also cities with other strong Francophone concentrations. It should be obvious that Belgium is even more wrecked TTL than it was IRL. The Meuse Valley, including Liege, is now German, and with it the resources that brought about the industry in the Sillion Industriel and by extension the port of Antwerp. The Francophone part of the population has shrunken considerably, and whilst Germany has had to retreat from Belgium, it is still victorious whilst Belgium is still left to deal with those who collaborated with them. And the collaborators do enjoy the support of the Front Movement. Belgium may just be irrevocably broken by circumstances outside of its controll. The one saving graces would be that with a loss of industrial territory, the socialist movement may be weaker and Albert I's still enjoys personal popularity among the veterans. And don't mention Degrelle, him entering politics was a fluke IRL already
 
This might also lead to a better future for Leopold III, as there probably won't be A german invasion in 1940, leading to his well-meaning but foolish decision to stick around.
 
This might also lead to a better future for Leopold III, as there probably won't be A german invasion in 1940, leading to his well-meaning but foolish decision to stick around.
It's not only his decision to stick around that was controversial. He tried to be more actively involved in the actual running of Belgium, which is something the political establishment did not appriciate and led to them trying and succeding in getting their revenge post-war. The idea of a national government outside of parliamentarian politics headed by the king and including basically everyone from socialists like Hendrik de Man to Verdinaso frontman Joris van Severen was floated around seriously
 
It's not only his decision to stick around that was controversial. He tried to be more actively involved in the actual running of Belgium, which is something the political establishment did not appriciate and led to them trying and succeding in getting their revenge post-war.
this is only partially true, he was only allowed to return after the christian democrats won the election on a platform of him returning. I think his problem was more that his behavior during the war put both a large part of the establishment as well as a vocal and large minority of the people wich protested very hard against him. It's not just the running of belgium but also his second marriage as well as other things.
 
this is only partially true, he was only allowed to return after the christian democrats won the election on a platform of him returning. I think his problem was more that his behavior during the war put both a large part of the establishment as well as a vocal and large minority of the people wich protested very hard against him. It's not just the running of belgium but also his second marriage as well as other things.
As a Catholic, how did he get away with that? A quicky annulment?
 
this is only partially true, he was only allowed to return after the christian democrats won the election on a platform of him returning. I think his problem was more that his behavior during the war put both a large part of the establishment as well as a vocal and large minority of the people wich protested very hard against him. It's not just the running of belgium but also his second marriage as well as other things.
this is only partially true, he was only allowed to return after the christian democrats won the election on a platform of him returning. I think his problem was more that his behavior during the war put both a large part of the establishment as well as a vocal and large minority of the people wich protested very hard against him. It's not just the running of belgium but also his second marriage as well as other things.
It's not only his decision to stick around that was controversial. He tried to be more actively involved in the actual running of Belgium, which is something the political establishment did not appriciate and led to them trying and succeding in getting their revenge post-war. The idea of a national government outside of parliamentarian politics headed by the king and including basically everyone from socialists like Hendrik de Man to Verdinaso frontman Joris van Severen was floated around seriously
My favorite thing, a government of national unity. I can understand why it won't wash.
 
As a Catholic, how did he get away with that? A quicky annulment?
Queen Astrid, his first wife, died in 1935. He married Lilian Baels in 1941, who was at the moment pregnant of their son, the would be prince Alexander. The marriage was first before the Church followed by the state which is a breach of the Belgian constitution, and their children were excluded from the succession as well
My favorite thing, a government of national unity. I can understand why it won't wash.
Belgium was already ruled by the British type of national unity governments during the latter part of the 30'ies, a coalition of the Catholics, liberals and socialists. What is more important is the cutting out of parliament and party politics in favour of acting decisively in national interest
 
Hopefully the Catholics weren't quasi fascistic Rexists.
Rex was just a very strange beast, and a lot of things would have to end up just right for Leon Degrelle to enter politics. Firstly, he's from Bouillon which is now a part of Germany. Secondly, he only really became politically involved as he was sent out as a Catholic reporter to report on the end of the Christero Wars in Mexico. Thirdly, iirc his father collaborated with the Germans during WWI as he ran a concrete factory. Rex was formed from this undertone of youthfull reactionary reformism within the Francophone wing of the Catholic Party, authoritarian yes (it wanted to return powers to the king for example) but not really fascist. Added to this would come a middle class liberal element that really feared communism. All of this was massively boosted as government aligned institutions, especially with the Catholic Party, underwent corruption scandals with the crisis going on. The height of the party was a by-election which turned into Paul van Zeeland (the prime minister) vs Leon Degrelle. (This also happened in the shadow of the by-election which turned into the (in)famous Borms Election which is also worth reading up on.) From then it was all downhill. Degrelle struck a deal with the Vlaams Nationaal Verbond (a Flemish big tent party that was eventually overtaken by its authoritarian, pro-German elements) over autonomy for Flanders, making the party strangely progressive on the communitarian issue, but shooting itself in the foot by alienating itself from its Belgicist base. The party was dead by the time war with Germany broke out. The events of May 1940 are also just a massive historical farce. Degrelle ended up surviving arrest and deportation (unlike Joris van Severen which saw the Verdinaso break apart) and would use his connections set up with the Nazi's in the late 1930'ies as a way to propell himself as top dog and rebirthing Rex as hardcore colabborationists. He laid down party leadership to volunteer on the Eastern Front and becoming the propaganda head for the SS in Wallonia. He ended up fleeing to Spain via Denmark and Norway after German capitulation where he was able to foster the myth of him as a fascist from the first hour. I'd really reccomend the biography on him by Bruno Cheyns if you speak Dutch or if its available in your language, cause his life story is just simply amusing. Rex also had some pretty cool esthetics.

Please excuse that minor ramble
Given that more formally fascist regimes have been butterflied away here, it seems more likely that the Catholics would just be more corporatist.
The Italian chapters have already shown that the coalition that Mussolini gathered is already split in twain. I think, with Germany ascendent, that the Conservative Revolution may have more weight to throw around and be a bit less pessimistic. No doubt would a third way still come about, but it's not going to be what Fascism was irl. Chesterton's quote of "If you cannot see the faults of capitalism, you deserve the communist solution" (probably not fully correctly cited) is still going to ring through with many people. A lot may depend on the first regime that pops up that really attempts to be the face of such a thing
 
I think, with Germany ascendent, that the Conservative Revolution may have more weight to throw around and be a bit less pessimistic. No doubt would a third way still come about, but it's not going to be what Fascism was irl.

Yes, I wouldn't disagree with this.
 
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Map of Europe as of the signing of the Treaty of Zurich

Putting aside the practicalities of the Brest-Litovsk states exercising any independent power, I am struck by how... Balkan... it all is?

They're only just thrown together. Their ethnic groups are heavily mixed in a patchwork stretching right across all those new borders. And even if one were comfortable with the ethnic cleansing and forced homogenization that would OTL create nation states, these borders still wouldn't make any sense.

Poland is very much in an early-Serbia position. Lithuania (if that's the name) is a very familiar sort of artificial construct - how many people in there can have a basic conversation in Lithuanian? Then there's the apparent Courland-Livonia split of the Latvians, with Livonia extending into much of the region where Estonian is spoken.

Wild.
 
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