The destruction of the Italian Fleet will mean that we can move our own merchant ships through the Med with far less of a threat. It also means that Italy can't send convoys to North Africa as there will be no escorts for them.
The Whale has Wings
- Thread starter Astrodragon
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The destruction of the Italian Fleet will mean that we can move our own merchant ships through the Med with far less of a threat. It also means that Italy can't send convoys to North Africa as there will be no escorts for them.
With the exception of supply runs to North Africa, shipping for Germany and Italy is small coastal traffic that is convenient but hardly critical.
3rd September
heavy air attacks on fighter commands southern airfields continue. While the targeted airfields are damaged, the damage is not serious enough to put them out of action, and the Luftwaffe continues to miss many of the dispersal fields used by the squadrons. Losses of RAF fighters are heavy, but the Luftwaffe losses are even worse, and it starting to look as if they will be unable to achieve any sort of air superiority during September, especially as the carcasses of downed Luftwaffe aircraft are now a common sight in the south east of England. More worrying to the RAF is the steady losses of fighter pilots
This worry seems to be felt in Germany as well; Hitler postpones the invasion of Britain, scheduled for 15 September, to 21 September, but issues Operational orders covering it.
The German navy continues to build up its forces of light craft and barges in the Channel ports. These are now the subject of regular night bombing by the RAF's light bombers; the individual attacks are not terribly effective, but the combined total is steadily reducing the number of barges available.
In the Far East, The Japanese army and navy agree on a southern advance strategy. The army needed considerable time to prepare itself for the Southward Advance even after mobilization was approved formally. When the admirals procrastinated, Tanaka Shin'ichi, head of the Army General Staff's Operations Division, scathingly asked if the navy was up to its old game of using the name of war preparations to secure additional allocations of funds and materials. But he also agreed to a simultaneous attack on Malaya and the Philippines using ten, not six, divisions. This concession got the navy off the hook and, by September 3, it agreed to join the army in pressing for a definitive peace-or-war decision by early October at the latest, as the generals had desired.
In an unrelated move, the US government warns the Japanese government against making aggressive moves in Indochina. The Japanese government is unimpressed.
7th September
An unexpected change in Luftwaffe tactics is immediately obvious as over 300 bombers escorted by as many fighters raid London Docks. The attack causes huge fires, which spread during the evening to cause serious damage to the dock area. Opinion is divided as to whether this change is the final prelude to an invasion, or a last gasp by a failing attacker. There is no sign of any of the barges moving, and sigint and Bletchly Park report nothing unusual; there is some cautious optimism that the Luftwaffe has shot its bolt.
Over the next few days, the pattern of a number of small attacks and one large one on the London area is repeated. Belief in Britain is now that either the invasion will occur within the week, or it will be called off. Bomber commands has now destroyed over 15% of the massed barges, and nightly raids continue. The fleet has been put on alert and all boiler-cleaning stopped; the heavy Home Fleet units are at 2 hours notice for steam at Scapa. The Royal navy continues to saturate the channel with small craft.
In order not to make them feel forgotten, the FAA squadrons based in East Anglia mount a dawn strike on two German destroyers in Calais; one is sunk by dive bombing, and the Cormorants strafe barges as they head back home just above the sea. The French channel ports are now so well lit up at night by burning barges that the RAF is referring to them as the 'Blackpool front'.
On the 10th September what is later seen as the final daylight effort of the Luftwaffe is made. Two massive and heavily escorted raids are made, in what is seen as an attempt to find if 11 Group remains in being. Reinforced over the last few days by fresh pilots and squadrons from 10 and 12 Groups, it most certainly is, over 80 German aircraft being shot down for the loss of 30 fighters. This will be the last large daytime offensive for the Luftwaffe; rather than defeating RAF fighter command is steady, high losses have instead gutted the German bomber and fighter force. Small daylight raids will continue, but shortly the heavy attacks will resume at night where the British defences are at the moment less effective.
heavy air attacks on fighter commands southern airfields continue. While the targeted airfields are damaged, the damage is not serious enough to put them out of action, and the Luftwaffe continues to miss many of the dispersal fields used by the squadrons. Losses of RAF fighters are heavy, but the Luftwaffe losses are even worse, and it starting to look as if they will be unable to achieve any sort of air superiority during September, especially as the carcasses of downed Luftwaffe aircraft are now a common sight in the south east of England. More worrying to the RAF is the steady losses of fighter pilots
This worry seems to be felt in Germany as well; Hitler postpones the invasion of Britain, scheduled for 15 September, to 21 September, but issues Operational orders covering it.
The German navy continues to build up its forces of light craft and barges in the Channel ports. These are now the subject of regular night bombing by the RAF's light bombers; the individual attacks are not terribly effective, but the combined total is steadily reducing the number of barges available.
In the Far East, The Japanese army and navy agree on a southern advance strategy. The army needed considerable time to prepare itself for the Southward Advance even after mobilization was approved formally. When the admirals procrastinated, Tanaka Shin'ichi, head of the Army General Staff's Operations Division, scathingly asked if the navy was up to its old game of using the name of war preparations to secure additional allocations of funds and materials. But he also agreed to a simultaneous attack on Malaya and the Philippines using ten, not six, divisions. This concession got the navy off the hook and, by September 3, it agreed to join the army in pressing for a definitive peace-or-war decision by early October at the latest, as the generals had desired.
In an unrelated move, the US government warns the Japanese government against making aggressive moves in Indochina. The Japanese government is unimpressed.
7th September
An unexpected change in Luftwaffe tactics is immediately obvious as over 300 bombers escorted by as many fighters raid London Docks. The attack causes huge fires, which spread during the evening to cause serious damage to the dock area. Opinion is divided as to whether this change is the final prelude to an invasion, or a last gasp by a failing attacker. There is no sign of any of the barges moving, and sigint and Bletchly Park report nothing unusual; there is some cautious optimism that the Luftwaffe has shot its bolt.
Over the next few days, the pattern of a number of small attacks and one large one on the London area is repeated. Belief in Britain is now that either the invasion will occur within the week, or it will be called off. Bomber commands has now destroyed over 15% of the massed barges, and nightly raids continue. The fleet has been put on alert and all boiler-cleaning stopped; the heavy Home Fleet units are at 2 hours notice for steam at Scapa. The Royal navy continues to saturate the channel with small craft.
In order not to make them feel forgotten, the FAA squadrons based in East Anglia mount a dawn strike on two German destroyers in Calais; one is sunk by dive bombing, and the Cormorants strafe barges as they head back home just above the sea. The French channel ports are now so well lit up at night by burning barges that the RAF is referring to them as the 'Blackpool front'.
On the 10th September what is later seen as the final daylight effort of the Luftwaffe is made. Two massive and heavily escorted raids are made, in what is seen as an attempt to find if 11 Group remains in being. Reinforced over the last few days by fresh pilots and squadrons from 10 and 12 Groups, it most certainly is, over 80 German aircraft being shot down for the loss of 30 fighters. This will be the last large daytime offensive for the Luftwaffe; rather than defeating RAF fighter command is steady, high losses have instead gutted the German bomber and fighter force. Small daylight raids will continue, but shortly the heavy attacks will resume at night where the British defences are at the moment less effective.
On the issue of the Italian Merchant Fleet I think I read somewhere that the Italians had failed to recall their ships before declaring war meaningthat many were sitting in Allied ports when the DoW was received and they were promptly impounded, I'm not sure if it's true or not does anyone know for certain.
Did the raids on the invasion barges happen IOTL?
Did the raids on the invasion barges happen IOTL?
Hyperion
Banned
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you mentioned earlier that Luftwaffe losses during the Battle of Britain where going to be slightly higher ITTL, I believe due to slightly better armed British aircraft, and a slightly large pool of aircraft and pilots?
If this is the case, in OTL, one of the biggest issues I recall for the British in the Meditteranean was the Germans shipping heavy Luftwaffe forces to Italy, Sicily, and elsewhere in the region, really putting pressure on the Royal Navy, which didn't have a good fighter force.
Could this buy British forces in the Meditteranean and North Africa some time to put more pressure on the Italians, if even only a few days.
If this is the case, in OTL, one of the biggest issues I recall for the British in the Meditteranean was the Germans shipping heavy Luftwaffe forces to Italy, Sicily, and elsewhere in the region, really putting pressure on the Royal Navy, which didn't have a good fighter force.
Could this buy British forces in the Meditteranean and North Africa some time to put more pressure on the Italians, if even only a few days.
It wont make much difference, the BoB ended a little sooner, but the main delay was training up crews to attack naval targets and get the support logistics in place. The early attacks will be a little lighter.
The big difference is the much better fighter protection most of the fleet will now have - no more easy targets.
And yes, the naval issues will put more pressure in Italy in North Africa - whether its enough to make a difference..you will have to wait and see
Astrodragon
This sounds more like 1941 rather than 1940? I doubt the Japanese are planning to attack in late 40 as until they have French Indo-China and also have pressurised Thailand they lack the based to attack Malaya from. Also they only have 4 fleet carriers until about mid-41, unless the Japanese have also managed to advance their carrier programme?
Otherwise looking good. The Luftwaffe doesn't even make it to OTL Eagle Day on the 15-9-40. Possibly means that their losses aren't too much greater than OTL and they have a bit longer to recover, so probably no major effects in itself for Babarossa. They can switch forces to the Med for a few months a little earlier, but once Britain realises the danger has gone, which shouldn't take long they can do likewise. Britain presumably has less losses and also more time to recover. [Hopefully we can avoid those savings being largely thrown away on the stupid fighter sweeps of OTL]. Wonder if the butterflies means that the raid on the Supermarine factory in Southampton is avoided, minimised as that would also be useful.
Steve
I didnt dare give them anything like that advantage. I've made the losses about 10% worse for the Luftwaffe (which is why they ended the battle earlier), and 10% less for the British (overall about 20%)
The real losers will be the Ju52's at Crete and anything marked with a meatball...
By 1941, all the British fighters will have 4 20mm cannon...The Japanese stuff is from OTL
Shows how long it actually takes to plan things, rather than waking up one mornng and deciding to invade the Indian Ocean...
Barbarossa wont be much affected by the BoB, nor will the Med.
The idiotic fighter sweeps will not happen as such - the RAF will be attacking Europe, but hopefully a bit more rationally (lets face it, they cant be MORE stupid than they were in OTL....
)(lets face it, they cant be MORE stupid than they were in OTL....
Never underestimate people's capacity to surprise you with spectacular stupidity.
Besides, the RAF could indeed be worse. They could have been led by Göring, for example.
Never underestimate people's capacity to surprise you with spectacular stupidity.
Besides, the RAF could indeed be worse. They could have been led by Göring, for example.
Um.
For my next timeline, an IRA bomb wipes out the Air Minsitry in 1933 and the RAF win the war in 1940.....
Um.
For my next timeline, an IRA bomb wipes out the Air Minsitry in 1933 and the RAF win the war in 1940.....
lol - thats a good one
One thing with this time line is that because of the much improved FAA the Air Ministry won't be able to play the B.O.B myth with anything like the same success post war as realy happend. Every time they play the we saved Britain card, thw Navy are going to point to Willhelmshaven, Norway, Taranto, Crete, Malaya, Burma, Dutch East Indies ect, and ask where were you? Pause, Oh yes killing civies and bombing cows in the wrong country.
Oh, it does get worse for the AM. They are going to court-martial some of the pilots who left their desk jobs to fly and fight. Thats going to be...interesting...
And beised, I'm sure they were evil nazi cows they were bombing...
Hyperion
Banned
Oh, it does get worse for the AM. They are going to court-martial some of the pilots who left their desk jobs to fly and fight. Thats going to be...interesting...
Instead of outright getting rid of those pilots, perhaps some of them might be exiled to Malaya.
Even with the odd pilot or two here and there getting a promotion even, getting sent to an Asian backwater would seen an interesting punishment from the perspective of those in 1940. Some officers might give up and figure their careers are over, others might decide to make the best of what they've got and train up local forces there to top combat and operational readiness.
A weak commander and poor equipment aside, having some more competent or seasoned junior and mid level officers, at least in the RAF, might not necessarily be a bad thing.
The normal result of a wartime courtmartial would be reduction in rank or similar for this sort of offence. The fun will start when it gets known about (as its embaressing, the AM will of course try and keep it a secret. Which means everyone in the RAF will know about it pretty soon
Its the reaction of the group and squadron commanders at the 'sharp end' vs the AM that will be possibly the most interesting.
Churchill's reaction when he hears of it will be...interesting. While he doesnt interfere with the internal workings of the forces in general, he will be taking a close interest.
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