The Anglo/American - Nazi War

[Evan]

Well both, obviously.

Actually it is more the "We have to act correctly in every way every minute, to do otherwise makes us just as bad" slippery slope school of thought.

Alternatively, "If only we'd acted better at these moments, Europe wouldn't be quite as bad as it now is!"
I can really see that self-flagellation gaining a lot of adherents.

 

[RCAF Brat]

Well here's a few things that I rejected:

Nerve gas strike against Halifax, Washington and New York. Logistically it just couldn't be brought together, not without compromising the story line too much. It would have been interesting though, maybe next time.

You did mention that they tried it, but the U-boats got sunk and thus allies don't realize that they dodged a bullet. Whether or not that remains the case depends on if the records survive what's coming.

U-boats deposited agents spreading Anthrax and Plague, and infected with infectious stage small pox in Argentina, India, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia. Figured it would take three subs, but it was more or less gilding the lily.

Reich agents poisoning the Ganges immediately prior to the Avatarana.

Nerve gas attack on Palestine, especially Jerusalem on April 24, 1959 (1st day of passover). I came REALLY close to using this one since it so perfectly summed up the Nazi belief system.

Biological attacks against the Canadian & U.S. agricultural system. Plague, small pox, dengue fever, Yellow Fever (gotta love those 'skeeters) seeding across the U.S. Gulf Coast and Brazil.

Early versions of engineered bugs used by the Reich.

Wholesale use of human shields, especially children, by the SS during the Himmler offensive (Again this ALMOST made the cut).

Whole bunch of other really unpleasant stuff that I won't bring up since, well, it is both really nasty and/or I still might use it.

Yeah, we get the picture. It could have been worse. And there is still some nastiness to come. You still got some cards to play, namely that sleeve full of aces. We'll just have to be good and wait for the inevitable surprises.

 

[Dan Reilly The Great]

I recently got to wondering, is there a chance of a spectre gunship type aircraft? It seems the perfect kind of thing to throw against isolated German holdouts.

 

[CDurham]

"Fleetlord Atvar, we are receiving signals from Tosev 3!"

As to the list, Jesus, that's dark.

I can see Straha suggesting that they just go into orbit around the moon and into cold sleep for another 10 Tosev years "so the natives can nuke/gas/plague themselves to the point of civilization-collapse and we can go in and pick up the pieces of egg shell"

 

[DD951]

actually poisoning entire rivers only sounds bad to our modern day minds.
Remember in this timeperiod it was quite normal to dump industrial waste into the rivers. It wasn't so long ago that the river rhine was rather lifeless due to the amounts of stuff dumped in it, especially the loads of salt dumped in it by the french. It is the same story for the thames and rivers in north-america in that timeperiod (dumping of manure in rivers still continues in some places up till today).

Depends on what is used to poison the river- the right sort of chemical, biological, or radiological agent can make quite a mess, potentially worse than industrial pollution, especially if the river is the major source of drinking water.

Consider this example from OTL- at the end of WW2, the Allies disposed of a lot of German CW stocks by cramming a few warship hulks full of chemical shells, bombs & other containers, towed them out into the Baltic & scuttled them. Fast-forward some 30-40+ years when the containers start to fail due to corrosion, and all of a sudden, fishermen start suffering from mysterious burns that turn out to be consistent with known effects of skin contact with mustard agents. After a bit of research, someone figures out that they've been fishing where those CW-filled ships were scuttled and sends someone to check it out, and found that there was a real ecological mess there.

So if the SS used the right sort of agents and went about poisoning the river with them in the right way, they could kill off all life in the river and make it useless for human uses to an even greater extent than industrial pollution would.

 

[DD951]

I recently got to wondering, is there a chance of a spectre gunship type aircraft? It seems the perfect kind of thing to throw against isolated German holdouts.

I'm pretty sure that somebody's at least proposed an AC-47 by this point, but the thing is, that type of aircraft needs to operate in a fairly benign environment when it comes to air-defense threats, and IIRC, Allied CAS & tactical attack aircraft have suffered a good deal attacking SS positions due to AA fire, and TTL, the US seems to be using end-of-WW2 era prop fighters & light bombers for a lot of CAS work (Skyraiders, A-26s, & IIRC, some mentions of Corsairs, Thunderbolts, & F8Bs drug out of the boneyard) which can better survive having to deal with AA fire.

 

[Crust3038]

Knowing TTL, the Race's encounter with humanity will be short, nasty and brutish as the alien ships die in nuclear fire.

Yeah that´s highly probably, WHAT the race has nukes but doesn´t has reasonable delivery systems for them ... no balistic or artilery ones that is, only just by killer craft, which can still be shot down.

And secondly if the Race detects nuclear GAMMA RAY bursts (and hell yes they can, every specie that develops nukes must have gamma ray detectors for nuclear explosions) from Earth they will pis* themselves. The Race isn´t stupid enough to run a nuclear gauntlet, even then that the Wallies have not ICBM BALISTIC missiles mind you.

 

[Hades]

what's the situation in Germany now that more people are seeing the writing on the wall?

 

[trekchu]

And secondly if the Race detects nuclear GAMMA RAY bursts (and hell yes they can, every specie that develops nukes must have gamma ray detectors for nuclear explosions) from Earth they will pis* themselves. The Race isn´t stupid enough to run a nuclear gauntlet, even then that the Wallies have not ICBM BALISTIC missiles mind you.

Genies vs Nuke Killercraft and landingships within the Atmosphere?

 

[Adam]

Genies vs Nuke Killercraft and landingships within the Atmosphere?

That would be a very interesting matchup.

 

[JL_Krag-Jorgensen]

An alternate ASB timeline covering a Race attack on TTL's late 1950's/early 1960's would be interesting.

 

[trekchu]

Actually Onkel Willie did one a while back. Race lands IOTL 1961.

 

[Hero of Canton]

Actually Onkel Willie did one a while back. Race lands IOTL 1961.

And I believe they got handed their heads rather quickly.

HoC

 

[MerryPrankster]

I think we're getting a bit off-topic.

I'd still like an update about Italy. Even though the Alpine passes can be easily defended, I can still imagine the Allies (and the Italians, if allowed) to at least put pressure on the Germans there to divert their attentions from other Allied projects elsewhere.

Also, given how the British seem to be in charge of occupied Italy, I could imagine them trying to bring the country in their "sphere of influence" like they seem to be now with Poland and Ukraine.

 

[trekchu]

In my TL I had the Axis blow all the roads over the passes...

 

[MerryPrankster]

In my TL I had the Axis blow all the roads over the passes...

If the German forces that attempted to invade Italy but were turned back by Allied troops just before the WMDs went down were able to retreat in good order, I could imagine them laying lots of mines or trying to render the passes unusable, but actually closing an Alpine pass strikes me as something that's rather difficult.

As Hendryk pointed out, they're easy to defend (the whole Thermopylae thing), but I think without nukes, closing them off entirely would be hard.

 

[xxmagex]

Actually Onkel Willie did one a while back. Race lands IOTL 1961.

I would be kind of curious if there is alink to this timeline out there somewhere

 

[Crust3038]

I would be kind of curious if there is alink to this timeline out there somewhere

HERE IT IS!! The Race "Retarded" I reeeeeeealy don´t want to know what Onkel Willie was thinking when he wrote that piece of ultimate human-wank , well that thing deserves the "The Drunk Fleet Lord Atvar Award for exelence due ... " (TM, created by Rogue Shadow)

 

[Claymore]

If the German forces that attempted to invade Italy but were turned back by Allied troops just before the WMDs went down were able to retreat in good order, I could imagine them laying lots of mines or trying to render the passes unusable, but actually closing an Alpine pass strikes me as something that's rather difficult.

As Hendryk pointed out, they're easy to defend (the whole Thermopylae thing), but I think without nukes, closing them off entirely would be hard.

Indeed. Mining over the relatively small frontage of the passes would allow a fairly small cover force to delay and inflict unacceptable casualties on a much larger force. Possibly to the point where the attack deems the cost not worth the effort. In other words, although not actually blocked, the pass might just as well be.

Having said that, we have already seen the allies successfully use helicopter assaults. Such tactics/assets would allow the allies to outflank/get behind potential blocking forces and help weed them out. Clearing the minefields would still be a lengthy process but perhaps the casualties could be kept to an acceptable minimum and thus forcing a passage through the Alps might be feasible. I guess it would all come down to a time/cost/resultant effect calculation.

 

[MerryPrankster]

If the Allies have poison gas, they could gas the German soldiers "covering" the mine-fields and then clear them out.

(Assuming the gas is successful in killing the Germans or suppressing attacks on the mine-clearing units.)

I think that'd be more effective than masses of conventional artillery or air raids, since many Pacific islands were bombarded thoroughly pre-invasion and the Japanese were still able to inflict lots of losses on the Allies.