William and Harold die at Hastings
- Thread starter aktarian
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If William dies, thats an end to the campaign right there for the Normans. They would retreat back to Normandy. Robert, who was aged between twelve to fifteen years old in 1066, would succeed his father as Duke, but I don't think his reign would be a long and sterling one. Even if he survives his first ten years, he'd probably get some hassle from his brother, William Rufus, who was born in 1056. His father had a lot of enemies.
Edgar the Aetheling, aged fifteen, was proclaimed King by the English Witanegamot after news of Harold Godwinson's demise at Hastings reached London.
Edgar the Aetheling, aged fifteen, was proclaimed King by the English Witanegamot after news of Harold Godwinson's demise at Hastings reached London.
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It is much more likely that the Witangamut would go for one of Harold's brothers than Edgar Aetheling. They would be outside London with an army, which many people find a very convincing argument.
Which of them was available? Tostig is a rebel and dead. Swein had died in 1052. Gyrth and Leofwine have presumably died at Hastings. Wulfnoth is still in captivity in France. Perhaps if not Edgar the Aetheling, then Edwin or Morcar who were the power behind Edgar, or Sweyn II of Denmark would be viable kings.
It's possible that with such turmoil in England, Northumberland and Wales might become problematic, and Scotland could attempt to make gains from the situation.
Also, Sweyn considered invading England OTL, but reconsidered at the last moment. Perhaps with Edgar, a younger and more timid man than William or Harold, on the throne, Sweyn might make good his threat.
So England might have had 3 invasions in 1066? or would that be 4? 
It's a wonder "we" took so long to create a Navy!
It's a wonder "we" took so long to create a Navy!
Sven(Sweyn) had just gotten rid of his major Scandinavian rival Harold Hardrade!
Sven actually tried having his brother Asbjorn and some sons rain/invade Northumbria 1069 - perhaps in TTL he may have an earlier go!
Harold dies as OTL so the Saxon military force at Hastings is broken and scattered and his brothers are dead. William dies at the moment of victory or shortly thereafter and the Normans are leaderless. Who would take command of the Norman field army?
If that person had sufficent authority then the Normans could still make a good fist of taking over the country as OTL.
Of course if the Normans began bickering and demanding reaffirmation from the new leader about the personal deals William had made with them the Saxons could rally and drive them out. Then whoever led the Saxon counterattack would be the new king. The monarchy was essentially elected was it not?
If that person had sufficent authority then the Normans could still make a good fist of taking over the country as OTL.
Of course if the Normans began bickering and demanding reaffirmation from the new leader about the personal deals William had made with them the Saxons could rally and drive them out. Then whoever led the Saxon counterattack would be the new king. The monarchy was essentially elected was it not?
Grey Wolf
Donor
England will do the same as it did in OTL after Hastings, elect Edgar king. As for the Norman option, it would probably fall to Eustace of Boulogne, who in OTL attempted to overthrow William with his own landing.
The Danes wouldn't consider themselves out of it either
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
The Danes wouldn't consider themselves out of it either
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Interesting. So Edgar would be king, but the Normans might still retain a presence in the south. Would this lead to a protracted power struggle between Edgar and Eustace?
Seeing as the latter is only fifteen or so after Hastings, my money is on Eustace for the eventual win. Eustace I the Conquerer, King of England? And meanwhile William's young son Robert is Duke of Normandy, growing up under a regency furious at having England usurped out of there clutches... this sounds like a good TL.
Interesting. So Edgar would be king, but the Normans might still retain a presence in the south. Would this lead to a protracted power struggle between Edgar and Eustace?
Seeing as the latter is only fifteen or so after Hastings, my money is on Eustace for the eventual win. Eustace I the Conquerer, King of England? And meanwhile William's young son Robert is Duke of Normandy, growing up under a regency furious at having England usurped out of there clutches... this sounds like a good TL.
I like the idea of Sweyn intervening after the three heavyweights deaths to re-establish a Danish controlled Northumbria... to the Humber anyway.
Interesting. So Edgar would be king, but the Normans might still retain a presence in the south. Would this lead to a protracted power struggle between Edgar and Eustace?
Seeing as the latter is only fifteen or so after Hastings, my money is on Eustace for the eventual win. Eustace I the Conquerer, King of England? And meanwhile William's young son Robert is Duke of Normandy, growing up under a regency furious at having England usurped out of there clutches... this sounds like a good TL.
Would Count Eustace of Boulogne be able to quickly gain the support of the other Norman Barons and the Breton and Flemish mercenary captains in William's army, though? Because I think its even more likely that all the nobles and knights involved the campaign would just sail home before sorting out who gets to be the under-aged Duke Robert's Senechal or whatever of Normandy.
Interesting notions. What would Malcolm of Scotland do? In our history, he sheltered the fleeing Anglo-Saxon royal family, fought on Edgar's behalf, and married St. Margaret. Would he instead invade England, with a weak and young king on the throne? Try to seize what he could? Would he still marry Margaret, perhaps an alliance marriage? Would she join a convent (as she wished to do) and become a minor religious scholar instead of a saint?
Harold had sons alive in 1066. I'm not sure how old the eldest was, but since two of them led an invasion from Ireland in the 1060s, they couldn't have been really young. The eldest (I think his name was Ulf) could have succeeded to Wessex, or even the whole kingdom, if the army wasn't totally destroyed at Hastings. Which leads to an obvious question: do we assume that Hastings was still a Norman victory in this ATL? If it was a Norman defeat, clearly one of the English candidates becomes king. But if it was an emphatic Norman victory, Robert might well try to hold the kingdom with the aid of his uncles and the other Norman nobility. If the going gets tough, he could later retreat to Normandy and let William Rufus take his chances.
Wikipedia has Harold's eldest sons (Godwin and Edmund; Ulf was younger) born in c. 1049, which is plausible.
There was a lack of elder statesmen on the English side after Hastings -- Edgar the Atheling, Edwin and Morcar were all close in age to Godwin and Edmund. The Normans were better off, with William's half-brothers prominent among the leaders.
I don't think the Normans would pack up and go home if William died. Ruling England would open up new lands for them, especially younger sons with no real prospects in Normandy. The Norman conquest of Southern Italy was ongoing in 1066, and is illustrative of the Normans' aggression and determination.
There was a lack of elder statesmen on the English side after Hastings -- Edgar the Atheling, Edwin and Morcar were all close in age to Godwin and Edmund. The Normans were better off, with William's half-brothers prominent among the leaders.
I don't think the Normans would pack up and go home if William died. Ruling England would open up new lands for them, especially younger sons with no real prospects in Normandy. The Norman conquest of Southern Italy was ongoing in 1066, and is illustrative of the Normans' aggression and determination.